ACLU

topic posted Wed, May 25, 2005 - 4:27 PM by  Stan
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ACLU officials said the newly declassified documents provide new evidence that U.S. authorities at Guantanamo Bay were mistreating symbols of the detainees' religious beliefs as a tactic to force them to talk.

This is from a news story on Drudge. What is the ACLU doing to Christians here every day?
posted by:
Stan
Kansas City
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  • Re: ACLU

    Wed, May 25, 2005 - 10:59 PM
    uh, yeah i was not happy to see the prisoner abuse going on there, it goes far beyond the religous stuff.

    what are you referring to as far as Christians?

    are you suggesting similar tactics are used by employers against employees?
    i am confused.
    • Re: ACLU

      Thu, May 26, 2005 - 3:56 PM
      I agree that nobody should ever be abused by another, love your enemy and all that. I'm sure things go on that we would find unacceptable as Christians, but I find it difficult to beleave that the abuse is anywhere close to what the prisoners claim (consider the source). We provided them with their holy books to start with and handled them with gloved hands. Knowing the scrutiny they were under I'm sure our troops did the best they could.

      I'm refering to the the efforts of the ACLU to rid American Christians of any symbol of our faith like the Ten Commantments, crosses, etc. while standing up for the rights of others outside of America to have the same.
      • Re: ACLU

        Fri, May 27, 2005 - 11:58 AM
        "American Christians of any symbol of our faith like the Ten Commantments, crosses, etc."

        are you referring to things like the Ten commandments in a courthouse???

        something we have to remember - THIS IS AMERICA=
        FREEDOM is JOB ONE.
        religion is a matter of choice, forcing others to respect our beliefs in UN American, and it isn't all that Christian either.
        if we are to allow the Ten Commandments, Crosses, etc, we will also have to allow the Star of David, the Muslim holy symbols, Hindu symbols, on and on and on.

        i know many people like to think this is a Christian noation, but reality- it is a FREE narion.
        something i ahve said before-
        i feel very strongly our success as a nation is in large part due to God smiles on us not only because so many of us worship HIm, but because we grant everyone the freedom to think for themselves
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: ACLU

          Fri, May 27, 2005 - 5:48 PM
          Well I'll tell Thorn one I've said before is that clarity is very important if you want to carry on a proper dialogue.Take your time,gather your thoughts,think them through critically and then share them with us.Read your last post and try it again.
          • Re: ACLU

            Fri, May 27, 2005 - 7:36 PM
            you're asking me to be more clear? what?
            first off this is spun out of wack because steve still isnt giving an actual example of what he is talking about.

            from there we could actually discuss this aclu thing
            • Re: ACLU

              Fri, May 27, 2005 - 7:37 PM
              i see no problem with my post.
              you might not like the opinion there, or maybe you need to re read it to figure out what i am saying i dunno, seems fairly stragiht forward spelling problems aside
              • Re: ACLU

                Fri, May 27, 2005 - 9:47 PM
                uh it was Stan , correction , and maybe this will clear you up-
                "rid American Christians of any symbol of our faith like the Ten Commantments, crosses, etc. while standing up for the rights of others outside of America to have the same. ":

                appears to be comparing the removal of religious symbols from government buildings to denying relgious books to prisoners.

                that's the real problem, a bum statement, comparing apples and oranges.

                as if a prisoner in America has ever been denied a Bible, or had it or his/her Chrisitan beliefs persecuted by guards in the US.

                not even close to true
                • Re: ACLU

                  Wed, July 27, 2005 - 5:46 PM
                  I'm sorry I haven't been around to post in a while.

                  The point of my origianl post in this string was to point out that the ACLU, by making their complaint, has further shown how anti-Christian and hypocritical they they are.

                  They have successfully filed law suites to have even voluntary, student lead prayer removed from schools. Students can't even bring a bible to school or have a private bible study. They have had historical Christian symbols removed from public places. They have even been able to do this against local community values.

                  Yet they have not filed any suites against the wearing of gothic clothing, pagan, wiccain, or other satanic symbols. It's OK to teach evolution, secular humanism (a religion no matter how you look at), even bestiality in schools. You can show a Crucifix in a bottle of urine and call it art, but you can't wear one. Now they are complaining about alledged mistreatment of a koran???

                  Face it, the ACLU is more anti-Christian than pro-civil rights. In fact, their actions have shown that they hate anything Christian and the scarry thing is the amount of power they wield here in the US.

                  The ultimate goal of my post was to motivate you, as Christians, to pray for the leadership of the ACLU. I apoligise for not making myself clear. I assumed that people with the same belief system as me would understand what I meant.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: ACLU

                    Wed, July 27, 2005 - 8:17 PM
                    Stan you made yourself as clear as can be.Some just don't want to see the truth about the ACLU (Atheistic Communist Liers Union).
                    • Re: ACLU

                      Wed, July 27, 2005 - 10:27 PM
                      stan where are you that all these things are happening?
                      not allowed to wear a cross to school? that is very odd and not true anywhere i have been.
                      and again, comparing a t shirt to a symbol in a govt building, kinda strange.
                      why would there be a suit against pagan shirts?
                      (i guess you refer to satanic symbols on rock shirts)
                      where is the suit against Christian shirts?

                      it really sounds like more than anything you are frustrated that Christianity isnt forced on everyone.

                      i just dont see what the govt has to do with my beliefs, or where Jesus told me to go around enforcing anything
                      what happens as islam gains steam and there are more and more muslim students.

                      i hear you that ACLU may be anti Christian in a sense, but you are making some very far reaching comparisons here, many of them false, none of them tied to reality.
                      >>Students can't even bring a bible to school or have a private bible study<< i have a hard time beliving that.
                      >>>You can show a Crucifix in a bottle of urine and call it art, but you can't wear one<<< well, the "art" is frustrating yes , but what school doesnt allow one to wear a cross?

                      >>> Now they are complaining about alledged mistreatment of a koran??? <<< how does taking a holy book from a prisoner ad defacing it in front of him compare to any of the above?
                      no one is forcing you to look at art, and the total reality =

                      how about you compare the traetment of Christian books, believers, etc to the treatment of muslims.
                      THAT is the only real comparison here, and you can't make it because the reality is Jesus is thoroughly preached and accepted throughout the prison system.

                      you are saying "screw those muslims and their book"
                      would you say the same if they were Jews?
                      it is that very dark sentiment that has me worried about your whole line of thinking.



                      it's frustrating, but the cost of freedom is allowing freedom to everyone.
                      i sure wouldnt want a giant pentagram hanging over my town=
                      and for where i live, Berkeley, who knows what the people here would want all over town were they allowed to put up religous symbols everywhere.
                      if we allow one, we have to allow both, i am much more comfortable with neither.



                      you wont like this, but it is noteworthy-
                      atheism.about.com/od/church...omfrom.htm


                      as far as i know witchcraft or "spell time" isnt being granted either.
                      also there have been reverse incidents- a "wedding area" in florida, available to all religions (buddhist, huindu, muslim, Christian) denied pagans from having ceremonies there.
                      a weird example, but it's not like the whole US is open arms for pagans.

                      i do agree evolution could be considered religion
                      but teaching creation doesnt seem logical either, if you want to allow religous freedom. really, scientifically , what is taught leaves plenty of room for Creation. there is plenty of evidence animals have evolved, and no reason to believe God would not make something like that happen.
                      However- there is no link from human to animal. it cannot be scientifiaclly proven that humans evolved from anything but themsleves!
                      diets, living conditions, weather have all caused changes in humans over time, but we remain essentially the same animal.

                      so it is easy to accept both. Humans were placed on the earth, animals were also, but they modify themselves over time, adapt, and because they are more simple, dont have the more specific purposes we have, they change while we don't

                      i dont know, what would you suggest teaching them?
                      if you are suggesting public achools become parochial, i would suggest you take a look at our Constitution, and remember= if we had a STate REligion=
                      which branch of Christianity would it be?
                      Catholic? Assembly of God? the whole nation under one church as prescribed by law?

                      either way,
                      something to consider=

                      what if Chrisitianity became a minority in the US?
                      would you want the major religion to force its rules on you , or would you like to continue your freedom to believe what you believe?

                      • Re: ACLU

                        Wed, July 27, 2005 - 10:30 PM
                        ok that was really long so one part that really disturbs me is worth repeating
                        )))Now they are complaining about alledged mistreatment of a koran??? (((
                        >>>
                        you are essentially saying "screw those muslims and their book"
                        would you say the same if they were Jews?
                        it is that very dark sentiment that has me worried about your whole line of thinking.<<<

                        i hear you , the ACLU is not Christ friendly, but compare something real.
                        compare the treatment of Christian holy materials vs others in prisons.

                        prisoners have nothing but their holy books, and it is incredibly rare a Christian is denied any part of his religion in prison

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