Christians for the Lord's topics - tribe.net

happy 420 from Jesus

2006-04-20T21:40:36Z

happy 420, my friends!

this is some 420 love from our kynd brother Yeshua, from book 4 of the gospels of peace.

enLIGHTenUP and enjoy!
dragonfly 420

THE GIFT OF LIFE IN THE HUMBLE GRASS

It was in the month of Thebt, when the earth was covered with shoots of young grass after the rains, and the covering of emerald green was tender as the fine down of a baby chick. And it was on a bright sun-filled morning that Jesus gathered the new Brothers of the Elect round about him, that they might hear with their ears and understand with their hearts the teachings of their fathers, even as it was taught to Enoch of old.

And Jesus sat beneath a gnarled and ancient tree, holding in his hands a small earthen pot; and in the pot was growing tender grass of wheat, the most perfect among all seed bearing herbs. And the tender grass within the pot was radiant with life, even as the grass and plants which covered the hills far into the distant fields and beyond. And Jesus stroked the grass in the pot with the hands, even as gently as he would touch the head of a little child.

And Jesus said: "Happy are you, Sons of Light, for you have entered into the deathless way and you walk in the path of truth, even as did your fathers of old, who were taught by the Great Ones. With the eyes and ears of the spirit do you see and hear the sights and sounds of the kingdom of the Earthly Mother: the blue sky where dwells the angel of Air, the foaming river where flows the angel of Water, the golden light which streams from the angel of Sun. And I tell you truly, all these are within you as well as without; for your breath, your blood, the fire of life within you, all are one with the Earthly Mother.

But of all these, and more, that most precious gift of your Earthly Mother is the grass beneath your feet, even that grass which you tread upon without thought. Humble and meek is the angel of Earth, for she has no wings to fly, nor golden rays of light to pierce the mist. But great is her strength and vast is her domain, for she covers the earth with her power, and without her the Sons of Men would be no more, for no man can live without the grass, the trees and the plants of the Earthly Mother. And these are the gifts of the angel of Earth to the Sons of Men.

"But now I will speak to you of mysterious things, for I tell you truly, the humble grass is more than food for man and beast. it hides its glory beneath a lowly aspect, as it was told of a ruler of old that he visited the villages of his subjects disguised as a beggar, knowing they would tell many things to such a one, but would fall down in fear before their King. So does the humble grass hide its glory under its coat of humble green, and the Sons of Men walk on it, plough it, feed it to their beasts, but know not what secrets are hidden within it, even those secrets of everlasting life in the heavenly kingdoms.

"But the Sons of Light will know what lies hidden in the grass, for it is given to them to bring comfort to the Sons of Men. Even so are we taught by the Earthly Mother with this -little handful of wheat in a simple pot, even the same earthen pot you use to drink milk and gather the honey of bees. Now the pot is filled with black soil rich with old leaves and moist with the dew of morning, even that most precious gift of the angel of Earth.

"And I did moisten a handful of wheat, that the angel of Water entered into it. The angel of Air did also embrace it, and the angel of Sun, and the power of the three angels awakened also the angel of Life within the wheat, and sprout and root were born in each grain.

"Then I put the awakened wheat into the soil of the angel of Earth, and the power of the Earthly Mother and all her angels entered into the wheat, and when the sun had risen four times the grains had become grass. I tell you truly, there is no greater miracle than this."

And the Brothers looked with reverence at the tender blades of grass in the hands of Jesus, and one asked him: "Master, what is the secret of the grass you hold in your hands? Why is it different from that grass that covers the hills and the mountains?"
And Jesus answered "It is not different, Son of Light. All grass, all trees, all plants, in every part of the world, all are part of the kingdom of the Earthly Mother. But I have separated in this pot a small portion of your Mother's kingdom, that you may touch her with the hands of the spirit, and that her power may enter into your body.

"For I tell you truly, there is a Holy Stream of Life which gave birth to the Earthly Mother and all her angels. Invisible is this Stream of Life to the eyes of the Sons of Men, for they walk in darkness and see not the angels of the day and of the night that surround them and hover over them. But the Sons of Light have walked for seven years with the angels of the day and of the night, and now they are given the secrets of communion with the angels. And the eyes of your spirit shall be opened, and you will see and hear and touch the Stream of Life that gave birth to the Earthly Mother. And you will enter the Holy Stream of Life, and it will carry you with infinite tenderness to everlasting life in the kingdom of your Heavenly Father."

"How shall we do this, Master?" some asked in amazement. "What secrets must we know to see and hear and touch this Holy Stream of Life?".

And Jesus did not answer. But he placed his two hands around the growing blades of grass in the pot, gently, as if it were the forehead of a little child. And he closed his eyes, and around him were waves of light, shimmering in the sun, as the summer heat makes the light to tremble under a cloudless sky. And the Brothers knelt and bowed their heads in reverence before the power of the angels which poured forth from the sitting figure of Jesus; and still he sat in silence, with his hands closed as if in prayer around the blades of grass.

And no one knew if an hour had passed, or a year, for time stood still and it was as if all creation held its breath. And Jesus opened his eyes, and the scent of blossoms filled the air as Jesus spoke: "Here is the secret, Sons of Light; here in the humble grass. Here is the meeting place of the Earthly Mother and the Heavenly Father; here is the Stream of Life which gave birth to all creation; I tell you truly, only to the Son of Man is it given to see and hear and touch the Stream of Life which flows between the Earthly and Heavenly Kingdoms. Place your hands around the tender grass of the angel of Earth, and you will see and hear and touch the power of all the angels."

And one by one, each of the Brothers sat in reverence before the power of the angels, holding in his hands the tender grass. And each one felt the Stream of Life enter his body with the force of a rushing stream after a spring storm. And the power of the angels flowed into their hands, up into their arms, and shook them mightily, even as the wind of the north shakes the branches of trees. And all of them wondered at the power in the humble grass, that it could contain all the angels, and the kingdoms of the Earthly Mother and the Heavenly Father. And they sat before Jesus, and were taught by him.

Andjesus said: "Behold, Sons of Light, the lowly grass. See wherein are contained all the angels of the Earthly Mother and the Heavenly Father. For now have you stepped into the Stream of Life, and its currents will carry you in time to everlasting life in the kingdom of your Heavenly Father.

"For in the grass are all the angels. Here is the angel of Sun, here in the brightness of the green color of the blades of wheat. For no one can look upon the sun when it is high in the heavens, for the eyes of the Son of Man are blinded by its radiant light. And it is for this that the angel of Sun turns to green all that to which she gives life, that the Son of Man may look upon the many and various shades of green and find strength and comfort therein. I tell you truly, all that is green and with life has the power of the angel of Sun within it, even these tender blades of young wheat.

"And so does the angel of Water bless the grass, for I tell you truly, there is more of the angel of Water within the grass than any of the other angels of the Earthly Mother. For if you crush within your hands the grass, you will feel the water of life, which is the blood of the Earthly Mother. And all through the days when you touch the grass and enter into the Stream of Life, do you give to the soil a few drops of water, that the grass may be renewed by the power of the Angel of Water.

"Know, also, that the angel of Air is within the grass, for all that is living and green is the home of the angel of Air. Put your face close to the grass, breathe deeply, and let the angel of Air enter deep within your body. For she abides in the grass, as the oak abides in the acorn, and as the fish abides in the sea.

"The angel of Earth is she who gives birth to the grass, even as the babe in the womb lives from the nourishment of his mother, so does the earth give of itself to the grain of wheat, causing it to shoot forth to embrace the angel of Air. I tell you truly, each grain of wheat that bursts forth upward to the sky is a victory over death, where Satan reigns. For Life always begins again.

"It is the angel of Life that flows through the blades of grass into the body of the Son of Light, shaking him with her power. For the grass is Life and the Son of Light is Life, and Life flows between the Son of Light and the blades of grass, making a bridge to the Holy Stream of Light which gave birth to all creation.

"And when the Son of Light holds between his hands the blades of grass, it is the angel of joy which fills his body with music. To enter into the Stream of Life is to be one with the song of the bird, the colors of the wild flowers, the scent of the sheaves of grain, newly turned over in the fields. I tell you truly, when the Son of Man feels not joy in his heart, he labors for Satan and brings hope to the sons of darkness. There is no sadness in the kingdom of Light, only the angel of Joy. Learn, then, from the tender blades of grass the song of the angel of joy, that the Sons of Light may walk with her always and so comfort the hearts of the Sons of Men.

"The Earthly Mother is she who provides for our bodies, for we are born of her, and have our life in her. So does she provide for us food in the very blades of grass we touch with our hands. For I tell you truly, it is not only as bread that wheat may nourish us. We may eat also of the tender blades of grass, that the strength of the Earthly Mother may enter into us. But chew well the blades, for the Son of Man has teeth unlike those of the beasts, and only when we chew well the blades of grass can the angel of Water enter our blood and give us strength. Eat, then, Sons of Light, of this most perfect herb from the table of our Earthly Mother, that your days may be long upon the earth, for such finds favor in the eyes of God.

"I tell you truly, the angel of Power enters into you when you touch the Stream of Life through the blades of grass. For the angel of Power is as a shining light that surrounds every living thing, just as the full moon is encircled by rings of radiance, and as the mist rises up from the fields when the sun climbs in the sky. And the angel of Power enters into the Son of Light when his heart is pure and his desire is only to comfort and teach the Sons of Men. Touch, then, the blades of grass, and feel the angel of Power enter the tips of your fingers, flow upwards through your body, and shake you till you tremble with wonder and awe.

"Know, also, that the angel of Love is present in the blades of grass, for love is in the giving, and great is the love given to the Sons of Light by the tender blades of grass. For I tell you truly, the Stream of Life runs through every living thing, and all that lives, bathes in the Holy Stream of Life. And when the Son of Light touches with love the blades of grass, so do the blades of grass return his love, and lead him to the Stream of Life where he may find life everlasting. And this love never exhausts itself, for its source is in the Stream of Life which flows into the Eternal Sea, and no matter how far does the Son of Man stray from his Earthly Mother and his Heavenly Father, the touch of the blades of grass will always bring a message from the angel of Love; and his feet shall bathe again in the Holy Stream of Life.

"Lo, it is the angel of Wisdom that governs the movement of the planets, the circle of the seasons, and the orderly growth of all living things. So does the angel of Wisdom ordain the communion of the Sons of Light with the Stream of Life, through the tender blades of grass. For I tell you truly, your body is holy, because it bathes in the Stream of Life, which is Eternal Order.

"Touch the blades of grass, Sons of Light, and touch the angel of Eternal Life. For if you look with the eyes of the spirit, you will truly see that the grass is eternal. Now it is young and tender, with the brightness of the newborn babe. Soon it will be tall and gracious, as the sapling tree with its first fruits. Then it will yellow with age, and bow its head in patience, as lies the field after the harvest. Finally, it will wither, for the small earthen pot cannot contain the full lifespan of the wheat. But it does not die, for the brown leaves return to the angel of Earth, and she holds the plant in her arms and bids it sleep, and all the angels work within the faded leaves and lo, they are changed and do not die but rise again in another guise. And so do the Sons of Light never see death, but find themselves changed and risen to everlasting Life.

"And so does the angel of Work never sleep, but sends the roots of the wheat deep into the angel of Earth, that the shoots of tender green may overcome death and the reign of Satan. For life is movement, and the angel of Work is never still, even does he labor without ceasing in the vineyard of the Lord. Close your eyes when you touch the grass, Sons of Light, but fall not asleep, for to touch the Stream of Life is to touch the eternal rhythm of the everlasting kingdoms, and to bathe in the Stream of Life is to feel more and more the power of the angel of Work within you, creating on earth the kingdom of Heaven.

"Peace is -the gift of the Stream of Life to the Sons of Light. Wherefore do we always greet each other, 'Peace be with you. Even so does the grass greet your body with the kiss of Peace. I tell you truly, Peace is not just the absence of war, for very quickly can the peaceful river turn into a raging torrent, and the same waves that lull the boat can quickly break it to pieces against the rocks. So does violence lie in wait for the Sons of Man, when they keep not the vigil of Peace. Touch the blades of grass, and thereby touch the Stream of Life. Therein you will find Peace, the Peace built with the power of all the angels. Even so with that Peace will the rays of Holy Light cast out all darkness.

"When the Sons of Light are one with the Stream of Life, then will the power of the blades of grass guide them to the everlasting kingdom of the Heavenly Father. And you shall know more of those mysteries which is not yet time for you to hear. For there are other Holy Streams in the everlasting kingdoms; I tell you truly, the heavenly kingdoms are crossed and crossed again by streams of golden light, arching far beyond the dome of the sky and having no end. And the Sons of Light shall travel by these streams for ever, knowing not death, guided by the eternal love of the Heavenly Father. And I tell you truly, all these mysteries are contained in the humble grass, when you touch it with tenderness and open your heart to the angel of Life within.

"Gather, then, the grains of wheat and plant them in small earthen pots; and every day with glad heart commune with the angels, that they may guide you to the Holy Stream of Life, and you may bring back from its eternal source comfort and strength for the Sons of Men. For I tell you truly, all that you learn, all that your eyes of the spirit see, all that your cars of the spirit hear, all this is as a hollow reed in the wind if you do not send forth a message of truth and light to the Sons of Men. For by the fruit do we know the worth of the tree. And to love is to teach without end, without ceasing. For so were your fathers taught of old, even our Father Enoch. Go now, and peace be with you."

And Jesus held forth the little pot with the blades of young grass, as if in blessing, and walked toward the sun-filled hills, along the shore of the river, as was the custom of all the Brothers. And the others followed, each holding to him the words of Jesus, as it were a precious jewel within his breast.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

What makes this tribe so dead?

2006-03-22T06:31:51Z

Do we need a purpose here? or what?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

Goodbye My Friends

2006-01-22T12:23:49Z

Hi there folks, sorry it's been so long since I've posted and here I am just to tell you good bye. I'm not going away, it's just that I have to leave this tribe because my metaphysical views have changed in the last four months. Due to a piece of logic that I have reasoned thuroughly I am no longer a Christian. I am a Theist trying to figure out God on my own terms, without unreasonable faith only reason. I am still happy to have met many of you and would welcome anyone who wishes to be a friend on tribe.

From being a Christian I have learned much about people and community and I hope to keep that with me even if there isn't a church that agrees with me. I'd like to think that maybe I could someday start a humanitarian church which focuses on the only important things that people should agree on for a religion. Mainly that human life is very valuable, not to be abused or squandered, only free to live. I just saw "End of the Spear" today and it makes me happy to think that christian missionary's make that kind of humane progress in the world. I would just like to point out that in the movie, it was the direct words that left no confusion which would have sooner, and eventually did save lives. The words, "God has a son" only made room for more violent conflict in the beginning. But the words "I am your sincere friend" was what held a man back from further killing by his conscience. I will respect the humanitarian missionaries as I move toward my goals to support the humanitarian cause but I must also attempt to influence others like yourselves to be safe people. Ultimately the christian faith is the same strong faith that those of islam retain, and it only takes a few words on Jihadism to turn some of their faiths into the faith of unknowing soldiers. Just as well, the conflict in Northern Uganda uses the bible and Christianity to murder orphans in order so that other orphans witnessing can be forced into trama driven slaves and soldiers. What logic there is in this I have no idea, it's only a faith.

With that said I must leave this tribe because it was not ment as a place to suggest or argue against the christian faith. Thank you for having me and I hope to still see some of you around on tribe.net

-Steve

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Open for suggestions, prayers, scripture!

2005-10-16T01:40:11Z

Daily I cry out to God, each prayer as desperate as the one before
He is within me, I believe this with all that I am
Yet I feel seperated, alone, and scared
His presence in my life is quite evident
He cares for me like only He can, I still want more
I want to know Him, to love Him like He does me
I need that peace that surpasses understanding
Why do I not rely on Him alone?
I want to relinquish it all, but I still hold on
By now I should be eating The Bread, here I am eleven years later, still on milk
Fellowship is hard for me, for trust is scary
I am in neutral, longing for drive
Why can't I just shift?
He is all I need, I know this, but I don't live it
I have been truly blessed, but still I cry
I rob Him of what he desires from me, and I don't want to
It seems so obvious, so simple
I feel ungrateful
I want to be a shining light for Him, I am but a mere flame
I see His works in my daily life, but I want to feel close to Him, like a daughter to her father
What am I doing wrong? How can I change?
I ask Him all the time, but no answer
I don't understand, I can't do it without Him
Is there something I am missing here?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 6 replies

The early Christians had an underground why can't we?

2005-10-10T15:25:09Z

Is it mandatory to debate with obvious non believers on a Christian Tribe? And are there any tribes available that are open and closed at the same time? Jesus didn't always spend his time contending with the contentious, he'd seek refuge with his disciples.. what's your thoughts?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Conference on Christian Values to Condemn Government Abandonment of Duty Towards the Poor

2005-09-20T14:34:44Z

A conference on Progressive Christian Values to be held October 13-15 at the National Cathedral in Washington, DC will gather Christians together to actively condemn the moral failures of the right-wing government and issue a comprehensive strategy for reform.

Panelists at the conference will present an array of ongoing faith-based media and policy responses towards Hurricane Katrina, poverty, the war in Iraq, health care, the environment, and racism. Work will center on effective strategies for faithful political organization, providing ways for participants to collaborate on the local, regional, and national level. "Focusing on values that transform the human race into the human family is essential as we live into the post-Katrina world" says the Rev. Ed Bacon, one of the key conference organizers.

The first day of the conference promises to be a major media event, demonstrating that moderate and progressive Christians have cohesive, public, strategic, unified aims for America. Expert panelists will show how the image of the church has been co-opted by a radical right and offer ways to respond.

“American political forces, in collaboration with this radical group, have corrupted Christ’s message of service towards one’s neighbor into a punitive politics of fringe interests wed to the idolatry of worldly security,” said the Rev. Rosa Lee Harden, Values Conference executive producer. “We invite journalists, clergy, laity, and the public to help us call America back from this dangerous politics, whose devastating effects we have seen so clearly in the abandonment of the poor after Hurricane Katrina.”

Further information on the conference is here:

http://www.everyvoice.net/values

- Please visit the conference PR website: http://www.everyvoice.net/values/pr
- Email the PR contacts: Elizabeth Krueger (elizabeth@everyvoice.net) or Jo Guldi (jo@socialredemption.com)

Practical Information
- The conference opens Thursday, October 13, 1pm, at St. Alban’s Church (at the National Cathedral campus) with an address by journalist E. J. Dionne.
- Six conference tracks address the politics of progressive Christianity (Thursday), economic justice, peacemaking, racism, and the environment (Friday), and family values (Saturday morning).
- The conference has places for five hundred participants. Seats are filling up rapidly, and we encourage attendees to register on our website. Registration for all sessions, banquets, and receptions being held at the National Cathedral and the Marriott is open for $255 a head ($85 for students). Registration for panels only (without banquet tickets) is $190 ($20 for students).
- Those in the DC/New York/Philadelphia area are encouraged to drop by the National Cathedral for whatever sessions most interest them. Day-attendance costs $20 ($10 for students).

Organizers and Participants
- The conference is the work of several grass-roots organized religious groups from California: Via Media, a new program of church education videos and materials based around Christ’s teachings and the concerns of progressive politics (http://www.everyvoice.net/viamedia/); the EveryVoice Network, a group of progressive Episcopalian clergy and laity (http://www.everyvoice.net); Claiming the Blessing an intentional collaborative ministry of leading Episcopal justice organizations focused on promoting wholeness in human relationships, abolishing prejudice and oppression, and healing the rift between sexuality and spirituality in the Church, (http://www.claimingtheblessing.org/); CrossLeft, a group of inter-denominational progressive Christian policy activists (http://www.crossleft.org/); All Saints’ Church, Pasadena (http://www.allsaints-pas.org/); and the Cathedral College, DC (http://www.cathedralcollege.org/).
- Our confirmed participants include political and social justice figures Jim Wallis, former Senator John Danforth, Jonathan Schell, and Richard Parker; journalists E. J. Dionne, Amy Sullivan, and Steven Waldman; and intellectuals Michael Kazin and David Hollinger.
- The conference will also host the directors of the major think tanks on religion, including the Bliss Institute, the Henry Institute, and the Center for Public Justice.
- Leaders of the progressive Christian activist groups CrossLeft, The Christian Alliance for Progress, the Center for American Progress, The Center for Progressive Christianity, and CrossWalk America will also be in attendance.
- Leaders from the Episcopal Church present will include: Robert Radtke, President of Episcopal Relief and Development; the Rt. Rev. Mark Andrus, Suffragan Bishop of the Diocese of Alabama; the Rt. Rev. Steven Charleston, the Rev. Ian Douglas; Valerie Batts; Mike Kinman; the Rev. Dr. Sabina Alkire and many others.

History and Aims
- The Values Conference follows a series of conferences this year at which spiritual progressives have loudly protested the co-option of the values debate by religious conservatives. Religious Right agendas like “Justice Sunday” meant to stigmatize the Democratic Party have met with outrage on the part of America’s silent majority of moderate and progressive Christians. The Values Conference will build social networks and cohesive strategies where earlier conferences have already demonstrated a body of Christians united by outrage at the Religious Right. The conference tracks point to the strategies and efforts underway in politics that evidence true Christian values that actually reflect the social gospel of Jesus Christ.
- The conference will assemble a number of Christian intellectuals, journalists, policy-makers, and grass-roots activists who have generally pursued their work in isolation. We hope that these groups will now be able to collaborate in areas where their strategies overlap. Out of this conference we expect to see a more unified sense of goals, impediments, and strategies than the Christian progressive movement has hitherto demonstrated.
- A further statement of the conference agenda is available at http://www.everyvoice.net/values/pr. The conference schedule is at http://www.everyvoice.net/values.

Interviewing Participants
Journalists are encouraged to interview participants about progressive Christian reactions to Hurricane Katrina, government catastrophe, poverty, Christian values, the progressive movement, and the Values Conference agenda.

- Keynote speakers include several major political actors for political change based on progressive Christian principles. Journalists may contact them through their offices.
o Jim Wallis of Sojourners, author of God’s Politics, will deliver the banquet keynote on poverty. An interview may be arranged through Jack Pannell. tel (202) 328-8842 ext. 214, fax (202) 328-8757, jpannell@sojo.net.
o Jonathan Schell, correspondent for The Nation and author of The Unconquerable World: Power, Nonviolence, and the Will of the People and The Fate of the Earth, will deliver the plenary address on peacemaking. He may be contacted through the Nation Institute: (212) 209-5400.
o E. J. Dionne of the Brookings Institute will deliver the opening address of the conference. He may be contacted through Katherine Moore, kmoore@brookings.edu. The front desk number of Brookings Institute may be reached by calling tel (202) 797-6000, fax (202) 797-6004.

- The conference will bring together several communities of grass-roots progressive Christians who are taking political action from their congregations.
o Jo Guldi of CrossLeft, a social historian and a Christian activist responsible for the Values Conference track on politics, is available to discuss the status and aims of progressive Christian grass-roots activism: jo@socialredemption.com.
o Dr. Ray Steiner, president of CrossWalk America in Phoenix, Arizona, can talk about building bridges between moderate and liberal churches, both equally disturbed at the religious right’s corruption of the Christian message: tel (766) 292-9255, rsteiner9@cox.net.
o Kathleen LeRoy, Vice President of the Christian Alliance for Progress in Jacksonville, Florida, can discuss the campaigns used by churches and congregations to fight for progressive values in politics: kleroy@christianalliance.org.
o Stephen Rockwell, one of the co-founders of CrossLeft, a group of activists dedicated towards political change in a progressive direction based on Jesus’s teachings, is available to discuss progressive Christian responses to contemporary politics: (215) 317-1865, steve@civicdirect.net.
o Kaliya Hamlin, an organizer of activist coalitions on the internet, is available to discuss how progressive activists are using the internet to forge networks of political action: kaliya@kaliyasblogs.com.

- The conference will bring together educators, journalists, and intellectuals who are speaking out about the co-option of the church by its radical right wing and how American progressives have traditionally defended the Christian message against its corruption.
o Ed Bacon, long-time justice activist and rector of All Saints Episcopal Church, Pasadena, and Rosa Lee Harden, director of Via Media and rector of Holy Innocents’ Episcopal Church, San Francisco, are available to discuss progressive Christian education and its approach to issues of sexuality, racism, economics, politics, and social justice: ebacon@allsaints-pas.org, rosalee@everyvoice.net.
o After October 1, journalists may contact historian David Hollinger of the University of California, Berkeley, about the progressive tradition in American Christianity, the apparent fragmentation of progressive politics after the 1970s, and how new progressives are harnessing the Christian tradition: (510) 642-3402, davidhol@berkeley.edu.
o Historian Michael Kazin can talk about the intellectual tradition of progressive Christianity, its nineteenth century legacy, and its transformative power in the social gospel and civil rights movements: at work, (202) 687-0007, cell (202) 246-4440, mk8@georgetown.edu.
o Journalist Amy Sullivan of the Washington Monthly, a Democrat and a Christian, is available to discuss the progressive Christian response to current events, the community of Christian journalists, and the representation of progressive Christianity in the media: (202) 393-5155, amysullivandc@gmail.com.

For More Information
- Please visit the conference PR website: http://www.everyvoice.net/values/pr
- Email the PR contacts: Elizabeth Krueger (elizabeth@everyvoice.net) or Jo Guldi (jo@socialredemption.com)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

prayer for hurricane victims

2005-08-31T22:21:28Z

I assume most of you have already kept people down south in your prayers.

Nevertheless, I felt compelled to note this prayer on this tribe...

Dear Lord, please give peace and comfort to our brothers and sisters in trouble, esp those who are suffering from this hurricane Katrina. Please help to bring speedy relief efforts to them and may they turn to YOU for guidance.
In Jesus' name, Amen.

Thanks everyone!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 7 replies

Cool Christian resource

2005-08-29T15:36:25Z

Hey, everyone, what’s up? I just wanted to drop in and tell all my fellow believers about this awesome online ministry that I found called Christian Connect.

http://www.ChristianConnect.com

Christian Connect is a website for Christians where you can date, make business contacts, accountability partners and friends. This is the only website where you can create and see full profiles. You can start Christian clubs, events, and even post classifieds there…I’m trying to buy some furniture there and find an apartment. There is also a praise and worship discussion going on..."Vineyard or Hillsong???"
I believe that this is an awesome website and look forward to some fellowship!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 10 replies

bored

2005-08-11T17:17:11Z

weather is not a hot topic for me so I just thought I'd make this thread to stay active.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

Disappointed

2005-08-08T11:03:44Z

I have to say --what I have seen from this tribe-- I have been *very* disappointed. I was hoping to find a good Christian group and I am disappointed in the tone and the meanness in what I have experienced and seen. Some people are very nice, but the sarcasm and meanness doesn't point people to Christ and I believe we are to strive to show people Christ. I know we all fail, but out right meanness is just not Christian behavior. There has been more friendliness in the running tribe that I read.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 7 replies

Gentle Reminder Said with Love

2005-08-03T14:27:35Z

<<nudge, nudge>>

I have noticed some rather sarcastic , condescending tones in some posts. Please remember to be respectful of other's beliefs, thoughts and opinions and be courteous in your replies.

God's grace be with all of you.
Suzanne

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

A True Christian Must Die To Himself, by Johann Arndt

2005-08-03T12:42:16Z

From the book "True Christianity" --

Christ died for all, that those who lived might live no longer for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised (2 Cor 5:15).

This verse is an excellent verse of consolation, for it clearly says that Christ died for all. It is also a beautiful guide to the holy life, in that it tells us we are not to live for ourselves but for him who died for us. If we are so to live we must die to ourselves and the world. It cannot be otherwise; the person who wishes to live in Christ must die to worldly lusts and he who wishes to live for himself and the evil world must let Christ go.

There is a threefold death. First, there is a spiritual death, by which man daily dies to himself, that is, to his fleshly lusts, to covetousness, pride, pleasure, wrath, and so forth. The second is natural death and the third is the eternal death.

Concerning the natural death, Saint Paul spoke in Philippians 1:21: To live is Christ and to die is gain. This indicates that when a Christian experiences the natural death, Christ is his life, and death is victory, that is, he receives a better life and wealth, an eternal for a physical life, and this is his victory.

It is also proper to interpret this passage as referring to the spiritual dying to sin. The soul whose life is Christ is blessed, that is, if Christ lives in the soul or if the soul takes the life of Christ to itself, that is, his humility and meekness. Most people have the Devil's life in themselves, and the Devil with covetousness, pride, pleasure, wrath, and sinfulness, that is, the whole of the Devil's life, is their life.

Therefore, take note who lives in you. Blessed is the man who can say in his heart: Christ is my life, not only following this life but also now. While you live here Christ must be your life, that is, he must live in you and to die must be gain, that is, if pride, covetousness, pleasure, wrath, and enmity die in you, if you die to yourself and the world. How great a gain, for by this Christ lives in you. The more you die to the world the more Christ lives in you. Is not this a great gain? Live then so that Christ lives in you in time, so that you might live with him in eternity.

Where the desires of this world are, there can be no peace and rest. To these, man must completely die before Christ can live in him. This is indicated to us in the dear, old Sarah who in her old age, after all womanly desires had died, became pregnant and bore Isaac, that is, one who laughs. Following the mortification of her body she bore the son of the free man (Gen 18:12). Thus, if the wordly desires do not die in you, you cannot conceive and bear the joy of the spirit.

This is also exemplified in Abraham, for he did not receive the promise of Christ and the circumcision before he left his fatherland and had left his earth. Thus, so long as a man clings to the world firmly with his heart, he cannot discover or taste Christ in his heart.

As soon as Herod died, Christ came back to Judah (Mt. 2:19-20). So long as the fox Herod is in your heart, with his earthly, worldly desires, Christ will not come. If he dies in you however, Christ will come. If Adam rules in you, Christ cannot live in you. Therefore, Saint Paul says in Galatians 2:20: "I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me."

You are truly dead if you cease to be what you were, that is, if your sins die in you (Rom, 6:1-18). If we live in the spirit, let us also walk in the spirit, that is, if we praised ourselves in faith and the spirit, let us also show forth the fruits of the spirit (Gal 5:25 ... Rom 8:13).

In 1 Samuel 15:8, Saul casts Agag, the Amalekite king, into prison, although according to God's commandment he was to have killed him. In the same way, many people secretly conceal their desires that they should kill. It is not enough that you hide away your lusts; you must kill them or you will be cast out of the kingdom as Saul was, that is, out of eternal life. The whole of the Holy Scripture with its histories, images, and figures looks toward Christ whom we are to follow in a holy life. Indeed, the great world-book of nature gives witness to God and his love.

Many men are as trees in the winter who at that time have no leaves but put forth leaves again in the spring. Many of them, if the cold winter of misfortune comes upon them, subdue their evil lusts but as soon as the sun shines again and it goes better with them again they begin their evil lusts in a greater way. They are hypocrites. A Christian, however, is pious, both in good and evil times, and loves God at both times of fortune and misfortune, in ownership and loss, in need and superfluity.

In 1 Kings 20:42 we read of Ahab. God gave the King of Syria into his hands and he was to keep him in prison. This indicates that God is stronger than all enemies and overcomes those who sin against him. When a battle arose, Ahab called him his brother and let him go, but a prophet came to Ahab and said: Because you have let go out of your hand the man whom I had devoted to your destruction, your life shall go for his life. In a like manner, many people call evil lusts their brothers and let them live. They ought to kill them and because they do not, they must give up their life for them.

Without the mortification of the flesh, nothing spiritual can be in man, neither true prayer nor meditation. Therefore, the Lord God commanded in Exodus 19:20 that no animal was to come near to the holy mountain Sinai or it would be killed. Thus, you must kill bestial lusts if you wish to draw near to the holy mountain of God, to pray and to meditate on God's word, or you will die eternally.

In Genesis 32:28 we read that Jacob received another name, Israel, that is, one who fought with God or God's prince, since in a battle with the angel he saw the face of God. Therefore, he called the place "Peniel," that is, God's face. One must first be a Jacob, that is, a victor. You must first be a Jacob, that is a victor through the Holy Spirit over your evil lusts, if you wish to be an Israel, that is God's prince, and if you wish to come to the place Peniel, that is God's presence.

In Genesis 29:17-25 we read that Jacob wishes to have the woman Rachel as his beautiful wife, but he had to take Leah first. Leah was physically ugly; Rachel was pretty and beautiful. Therefore, if you wish to have the beautiful Rachel, that is, if your soul is to be the wife of Jacob, that is, of Christ, you must first take to yourself Leah, that is, you must not be pleasing to yourself and deny yourself. How many are led astray, as was Jacob, from their own lives, that is, from themselves, who think they have the beautiful and pretty Rachel, that is, they think they have a Christian life that will be pleasing to God. Yet when they look at it, it is Leah. Their life is hateful and unformed before God's eyes. If you are first unworthy in your own eyes as a Leah, the most unworthy in her father's house, learn first humility, meekness, and patience. Then you will become the beautiful Rachel.

Note how loyally Jacob served seven years for Rachel and yet it seemed to him it was one single day, so much love did he have for her. So also your Lord Christ served your soul thirty-three years in this world and endured difficult service for you, as Jacob said: These twenty years have I been with you; by day the heat consumed me and the cold by night, and my sleep fled from my eyes (Gen 31:38-40). Note that the Lord Christ also served you in a similar way as he said in Matthew 20:28: "The Son of Man is not come to be served but that he might serve and give his life as a payment for many." Therefore, will you then not love Christ and deny the world, his enemy?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 19 replies

one question

2005-07-31T21:29:45Z

what would you ask the Lord if you had one question...?
(yep, i stole this post from another tribe)

I was thinking I would ask "Why?"

posted in Christians for the Lord - 19 replies

ACLU

2005-07-28T05:30:36Z

ACLU officials said the newly declassified documents provide new evidence that U.S. authorities at Guantanamo Bay were mistreating symbols of the detainees' religious beliefs as a tactic to force them to talk.

This is from a news story on Drudge. What is the ACLU doing to Christians here every day?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 11 replies

something to think about

2005-07-23T08:32:45Z

From Christianity General forum,
forums.about.com/ab-christ...ty/messages

I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian. We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean what are we talking about? Because we don't get to make them up as we go along, especially not if we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does. Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are on their side:

a. When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe that this is not only not moral, but immoral.

b. When you live in a country that has established international rules for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.

c. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we must never return violence for violence and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.

d. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing something immoral.

e.. When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you are doing something immoral.

f. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.

g. When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called "enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva convention, which your own country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you are doing something immoral.

h. When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with you, or with the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches your own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted, instead of helping us to kick the habit, you are doing something immoral.

i. When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our children, you are doing something immoral.

j. When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have done something immoral.

k. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

l. When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of Jesus, who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom, you are doing something immoral.

m. When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect the earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done something immoral. The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

n. When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.

o.. When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a "compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all religious faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help, you are doing something immoral.

p. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick, but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing something immoral.

q. When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and gay rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I can't support the troops but oppose the war. I heard that when I was your age--when the Vietnam war was raging. We knew that that war was wrong, and you know that this war is wrong--the only question is how many people are going to die before these make-believe Christians are removed from power? This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can turn things around are people like you--young people who are just beginning to wake up to what is happening to them.

It's your country to take back. It's your faith to take back. It's your future to take back..

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut. Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus, and real Buddhists - so do all the faith traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is precious. Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith. And war -- war is the greatest failure of the human race -- and thus the greatest failure of faith.

There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all: War, what is it good for? absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it take to know that too many people have died? What if they gave a war and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 9 replies

Christian Talk

2005-07-10T15:18:30Z

come on over to christian talk tribe, the link is most likely to the left of the screen.... there seems to be a lot of conversation there. all are welcome

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

The Raven

2005-06-07T17:46:43Z

Christian Literary Discussions is a concept for a type of bible study which refers to any literary or artistic concepts which inspire us with God and our life struggles in mind. Here is an online example of what I'm trying to achieve. This example is from a poem by Edger Allen Poe titled "The Raven" written in 1845

the poem goes like this:

"Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore,
While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
`'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more.'

Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December,
And each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.
Eagerly I wished the morrow; - vainly I had sought to borrow
From my books surcease of sorrow - sorrow for the lost Lenore -
For the rare and radiant maiden whom the angels named Lenore -
Nameless here for evermore.

And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain
Thrilled me - filled me with fantastic terrors never felt before;
So that now, to still the beating of my heart, I stood repeating
`'Tis some visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door -
Some late visitor entreating entrance at my chamber door; -
This it is, and nothing more,'

Presently my soul grew stronger; hesitating then no longer,
`Sir,' said I, `or Madam, truly your forgiveness I implore;
But the fact is I was napping, and so gently you came rapping,
And so faintly you came tapping, tapping at my chamber door,
That I scarce was sure I heard you' - here I opened wide the door; -
Darkness there, and nothing more.

Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token,
And the only word there spoken was the whispered word, `Lenore!'
This I whispered, and an echo murmured back the word, `Lenore!'
Merely this and nothing more.

Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,
Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.
`Surely,' said I, `surely that is something at my window lattice;
Let me see then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore -
Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore; -
'Tis the wind and nothing more!'

Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,
In there stepped a stately raven of the saintly days of yore.
Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;
But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door -
Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door -
Perched, and sat, and nothing more.

Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,
By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

Much I marvelled this ungainly fowl to hear discourse so plainly,
Though its answer little meaning - little relevancy bore;
For we cannot help agreeing that no living human being
Ever yet was blessed with seeing bird above his chamber door -
Bird or beast above the sculptured bust above his chamber door,
With such name as `Nevermore.'

But the raven, sitting lonely on the placid bust, spoke only,
That one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
Nothing further then he uttered - not a feather then he fluttered -
Till I scarcely more than muttered `Other friends have flown before -
On the morrow will he leave me, as my hopes have flown before.'
Then the bird said, `Nevermore.'

Startled at the stillness broken by reply so aptly spoken,
`Doubtless,' said I, `what it utters is its only stock and store,
Caught from some unhappy master whom unmerciful disaster
Followed fast and followed faster till his songs one burden bore -
Till the dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore
Of "Never-nevermore."'

But the raven still beguiling all my sad soul into smiling,
Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird and bust and door;
Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking
Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore -
What this grim, ungainly, gaunt, and ominous bird of yore
Meant in croaking `Nevermore.'

This I sat engaged in guessing, but no syllable expressing
To the fowl whose fiery eyes now burned into my bosom's core;
This and more I sat divining, with my head at ease reclining
On the cushion's velvet violet lining that the lamp-light gloated o'er,
But whose velvet violet lining with the lamp-light gloating o'er,
She shall press, ah, nevermore!

Then, methought, the air grew denser, perfumed from an unseen censer
Swung by Seraphim whose foot-falls tinkled on the tufted floor.
`Wretch,' I cried, `thy God hath lent thee - by these angels he has sent thee
Respite - respite and nepenthe from thy memories of Lenore!
Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe, and forget this lost Lenore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Prophet!' said I, `thing of evil! - prophet still, if bird or devil! -
Whether tempter sent, or whether tempest tossed thee here ashore,
Desolate yet all undaunted, on this desert land enchanted -
On this home by horror haunted - tell me truly, I implore -
Is there - is there balm in Gilead? - tell me - tell me, I implore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Prophet!' said I, `thing of evil! - prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that Heaven that bends above us - by that God we both adore -
Tell this soul with sorrow laden if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden whom the angels named Lenore -
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels named Lenore?'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

`Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!' I shrieked upstarting -
`Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore!
Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken!
Leave my loneliness unbroken! - quit the bust above my door!
Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'

And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming,
And the lamp-light o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted - nevermore!"

Ok now that you've read it take some notes about what you think of it so far. You could maybe even post a reply before you go on to the more important stage I'm going to have you do next. If you do make it clear so that we all understand what you think.

After you do that I want you to consider where Poe, or at least his poetic character might be in their walk with God. Not too good? Hopefull? Does the future look grim or does it seem like the future is all he's waiting for? With those thoughts in mind, I want you to now go back and consider what would happen if you replaced the character of the Raven with Christ in it's place . Take your time..... Now once that's done reflect on it and this time definately reply. you can also look at others replys first if you like. Then if you are done, please by all means participate with something likewise. An example of something that's motivated you in life. A mind breaking concept of truth and meaning. Then enjoy The input and feedback!

-Steve

posted in Christians for the Lord - 13 replies

A Quiz

2005-06-03T23:13:26Z

http://beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

Discuss your results!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 23 replies

Faith and Politics

2005-06-02T21:21:13Z

(From the thread "A Quiz")

Please correct me if I am off-base on this. C&B seems to think so.

Steve posted:
>>I may be a liberal Christian but I'm definately voting republican currently. Main two reasons (1) I hate open faced liars especially when they are politicians and Clinton is still in charge of the Democratic Party, and (2) I might support passivism but when war is necesscary then it is necessary. I think the war we are in is necessary to stop terrorism.<<

Steve was expressing his surprise at matching up with Liberal Protestant Christians since he tends to vote Republican.

C&B posted:
>>Steve, I have got to ask you to leave the right wing Bush loven stuff at the door.<<

C&B is obviously not a Republican supporter.

Thorn posted:

>>open faced liars?
so since Bush doesnt cop to his lies he isnt one???

Thorn scored one for the opposing view with his post.<<

As I stated on that thread, my faith STRONGLY influences my political persuasions and who I support.
Maybe I am naive. I think one should be able to insert a reference to their faith-influenced political leanings without being afraid of being attacked.

I definitely do not want this tribe to turn into a political forum for right-wing conservatives vs. left-wing liberals. There are other tribes for that.

What say you, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 16 replies

Apologies to Tribe...

2005-06-02T13:17:17Z

Good Morning, everyone.

I want to apologize for appearing to abandon you. Life has been uber hectic the past couple of weeks topped off by my computer crashing. The operating system was erased somehow. The tech was able to save all my data but now I have to reload all my software. I have to take both kiddos to two separate camps this weekend. It will probably be late next week before I get my computer up and running. Husband is getting really tired of me kicking him off of his.

Talk to you all soon!
Suzanne

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

T.U.L.I.P.

2005-06-01T14:41:31Z

So, per Unconditional Election, if free will is a moot point when it comes to our salvation, then why does the Bible speak of choosing and accepting Christ?

Do we indeed have free will, and in what capacity? Is it simply that we have free will in all matters except our salvation?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 11 replies

Prayer Requests

2005-05-31T23:51:32Z

The power of prayer is often taken for granted, and I always forget to ask others for theirs. God answers prayers, but only if we pray in the first place.

Post your requests here!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 19 replies

what happens when church and state mix

2005-05-31T21:15:05Z

so below we got an interesting article about a judge forcing two parents
not t oteach their kid any "non mainstream" religious beliefs (with no clear definition of mainstream)

What i hope you think about- if we were to have state mandated
Christianity- what denomination would be the leader?
how would that all be handled? oops, big trouble.

telling people what faith to have leads to telling people how to practice said faith, who its leaders will be, and worse.

wasn't there a king of england who created PROTESTant faiths to get around being married for life?

ps- not trying to encourage this wicca nonsense, but you could substitute many faiths - for one Mormons, for another churches allowing speaking in tongues might be condsidered "weird".

essentially non-mainstream covers a vast number of smaller Christian groups, whether the juge means it this way or not

Judge: Parents can't teach pagan beliefs
Father appeals order in divorce decree that prevents couple from exposing son to Wicca.

Challenging the court: Thomas E. Jones Jr. says a judge's order tramples on his and his ex-wife's constitutional right to share their religious beliefs with their son. -- Frank Espich / The Star

What is Wicca?

Wicca is not a centralized religion but a belief system observed by 50,000 Americans that is recognized by reference texts such as the U.S. Army Chaplain's Handbook.

Wicca is related to European tribal nature worship. Wiccans regard living things as sacred and often show a concern for the environment.

They do not worship Satan, but some cast "spells." Some worship in the nude as a sign of attunement with nature.

The core value of Wicca states, "As it harm none, do what you will."

-- Star report

By Kevin Corcoran
kevin.corcoran@indystar.com

An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."

The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.

Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, kept the unusual provision in the couple's divorce decree last year over their fierce objections, court records show. The order does not define a mainstream religion.

Bradford refused to remove the provision after the 9-year-old boy's outraged parents, Thomas E. Jones Jr. and his ex-wife, Tammie U. Bristol, protested last fall.

Through a court spokeswoman, Bradford said Wednesday he could not discuss the pending legal dispute.

The parents' Wiccan beliefs came to Bradford's attention in a confidential report prepared by the Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau, which provides recommendations to the court on child custody and visitation rights. Jones' son attends a local Catholic school.

"There is a discrepancy between Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones' lifestyle and the belief system adhered to by the parochial school. . . . Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones display little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages," the bureau said in its report.

But Jones, 37, Indianapolis, disputes the bureau's findings, saying he attended Bishop Chatard High School in Indianapolis as a non-Christian.

Jones has brought the case before the Indiana Court of Appeals, with help from the Indiana Civil Liberties Union. They filed their request for the appeals court to strike the one-paragraph clause in January.

"This was done without either of us requesting it and at the judge's whim," said Jones, who has organized Pagan Pride Day events in Indianapolis. "It is upsetting to our son that he cannot celebrate holidays with us, including Yule, which is winter solstice, and Ostara, which is the spring equinox."

The ICLU and Jones assert the judge's order tramples on the parents' constitutional right to expose their son to a religion of their choice. Both say the court failed to explain how exposing the boy to Wicca's beliefs and practices would harm him.

Bristol is not involved in the appeal and could not be reached for comment. She and Jones have joint custody, and the boy lives with the father on the Northside.

Jones and the ICLU also argue the order is so vague that it could lead to Jones being found in contempt and losing custody of his son.

"When they read the order to me, I said, 'You've got to be kidding,' " said Alisa G. Cohen, an Indianapolis attorney representing Jones. "Didn't the judge get the memo that it's not up to him what constitutes a valid religion?"

Some people have preconceived notions about Wicca, which has some rituals involving nudity but mostly would be inoffensive to children, said Philip Goff, director of the Center for the Study of Religion & American Culture at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis.

"Wiccans use the language of witchcraft, but it has a different meaning to them," Goff said. "Their practices tend to be rather pacifistic. They tend to revolve around the old pagan holidays. There's not really a church of Wicca. Practices vary from region to region."

Even the U.S. military accommodates Wiccans and educates chaplains about their beliefs, said Lawrence W. Snyder, an associate professor of religious studies at Western Kentucky University.

"The federal government has given Wiccans protection under the First Amendment," Snyder said. "Unless this judge has some very specific information about activities involving the child that are harmful, the law is not on his side."

At times, divorcing parents might battle in the courts over the religion of their children. But Kenneth J. Falk, the ICLU's legal director, said he knows of no such order issued before by an Indiana court. He said his research also did not turn up such a case nationally.

"Religion comes up most frequently when there are disputes between the parents. There are lots of cases where a mom and dad are of different faiths, and they're having a tug of war over the kids," Falk said. "This is different: Their dispute is with the judge. When the government is attempting to tell people they're not allowed to engage in non-mainstream activities, that raises concerns."

Indiana law generally allows parents who are awarded physical custody of children to determine their religious training; courts step in only when the children's physical or emotional health would be endangered.

Getting the judge's religious restriction lifted should be a slam-dunk, said David Orentlicher, an Indiana University law professor and Democratic state representative from Indianapolis.

"That's blatantly unconstitutional," Orentlicher said. "Obviously, the judge can order them not to expose the child to drugs or other inappropriate conduct, but it sounds like this order was confusing or could be misconstrued."

The couple married in February 1995, and their divorce was final in February 2004.

As Wiccans, the boy's parents believe in nature-based deities and engage in worship rituals that include guided meditation that Jones says improved his son's concentration. Wicca "is an understanding that we're all connected, and respecting that," said Jones, who is a computer Web designer.

Jones said he does not consider himself a witch or practice anything resembling witchcraft.

During the divorce, he told a court official that Wiccans are not devil worshippers. And he said he does not practice a form of Wicca that involves nudity.

"I celebrate life as a duality. There's a male and female force to everything," Jones said. "I feel the Earth is a living creature. I don't believe in Satan or any creature of infinite evil."

posted in Christians for the Lord - 9 replies

Bible study

2005-05-31T20:38:01Z

Whose up for some? I was thinking something in Luke. Anyone have an opinion on this... Please please please something in the 4 Gospels...

posted in Christians for the Lord - 15 replies

There is No Security From Temptation in This Life

2005-05-25T15:22:46Z

From the Imitation of Christ, written by Thomas a Kempis --

The Voice of Christ

My child, in this life you are never safe, and as long as you live the weapons of the spirit will ever be necessary to you. You dwell among enemies. You are subject to attack from the right and the left. If, therefore, you do not guard yourself from every quarter with the shield of patience, you will not remain long unscathed.

Moreover, if you do not steadily set your heart on Me, with a firm will to suffer everything for My sake, you will not be able to bear the heat of this battle or to win the crown of the blessed. You ought, therefore, to pass through all these things bravely and to oppose a strong hand to whatever stands in your way. For to him who triumphs heavenly bread is given, while for him who is too lazy to fight there remains much misery.

If you look for rest in this life, how will you attain to everlasting rest? Dispose yourself, then, not for much rest but for great patience. Seek true peace, not on earth but in heaven; not in men or in other creatures but in God alone. For love of God you should undergo all things cheerfully, all labors and sorrows, temptations and trials, anxieties, weaknesses, necessities, injuries, slanders, rebukes, humiliations, confusions, corrections, and contempt. For these are helps to virtue. These are the trials of Christ's recruit. These form the heavenly crown. For a little brief labor I will give an everlasting crown, and for passing confusion, glory that is eternal.

Do you think that you will always have spiritual consolations as you desire? My saints did not always have them. Instead, they had many afflictions, temptations of various kinds, and great desolation. Yet they bore them all patiently. They placed their confidence in God rather than in themselves, knowing that the sufferings of this life are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to come. And you---do you wish to have at once that which others have scarcely obtained after many tears and great labors?

Wait for the Lord, act bravely, and have courage. Do not lose trust. Do not turn back but devote your body and soul constantly to God's glory. I will reward you most plentifully. I will be with you in every tribulation.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Prayers for Sybil Loves Jesus...

2005-05-25T03:38:07Z

A new member of our group is a VERY NEW Christian. She needs our support, help and prayers.

Friends from her old way of life are watching and waiting for her to fall; even taking bets on when it will be.

Let her know she has people she can turn to.

Sybil, we are here for you whenever you need us.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 6 replies

Contemporary Music

2005-05-20T23:23:42Z

As far as I know, everybody has this issue being discussed at their church. What passes for worship music these days? I personally don't like the common praise songs because I can never really show complete respect for God with something less then what I'm good for. As a result, my real Worship is done in the car when I feel like singing a good song for God. Everyone go ahead and post your own preferences here, but I'm also curious of what you might think of mine.

So far the best praise song I've grown to like is "How Great is Our God":

(v.1)
The splendor of the King, clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice, all the earth rejoice
He wraps Himself in light, and darkness tries to hide,
And trembles at His voice, and trembles at His voice.

(chorus)
How great is our God! Sing with me:
How great is our God! And all will see
How great, how great is our God

(v.2)
And age to age He stands, and time is in His hands;
Beginning and the End, Beginning and the End.
The Godhead, three in one, Father, Spirit, Son
The Lion and the Lamb, the Lion and the Lamb.

[Repeat Chorus]

Bridge:
Name above all names,
Worthy of all praise.
My heart will sing: How great is our God!
[Repeat Bridge]

[Repeat Chorus to end]

I mostly like this song because it has a real honest praise sound to it. Kinda like "God Gave Rock and Roll to You". Even if not everybody likes that kind of thing or agrees with it, I find it to be good for honesty and feel to it.

On the secular side, I really don't find secular music to really be that secular. Ever notice that the old hymes were origionally common bar music? I kinda think about that as being God reaching out to everyone on some common ground. I like that, it's honest about lifes problems, honest about how one feels towards God and honest about how one will rely on God in dealing with it.

I have a few that i choose to change the lyrics slightly on, but on the really good ones I don't need to. "jumper" by Third Eye Blind is one that I never change personally to get the Godly meaning but for you to understand what it feels like to me here is a slightly changed version of it:

I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
We could cut ties with all the lies
That we've been living in
And, if want me to suffer for my sin,
I would understand
I would understand

The angry boy a bit too insane, icing over a secret pain
You know you don't belong
You're the first to fight, you're way too loud
You're the flash of light on a burial shroud
I know something's wrong
Well everyone I know has got a reason
to say
Put the past away

I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
We could cut ties with all the lies
That we've been living in
And, if want me to suffer for my sin,
I would understand
I would understand

Well he's on the table and he's gone to code
And I do not think anyone knows what they're, doing here
And your friends have left you, you've been dismissed
I never thought it would come to this
And I, I want you to know
Everyone's got to face down the demons
Maybe today, you could put the past away

I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
We could cut ties with all the lies
That we've been living in
And, if want me to suffer for my sin,
I would understand
I would understand

(I would understand)
(I would understand)
(I would understand)
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah!

Can you put the past away?
I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
(I would understand)
I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
(I would understand)
I wish you could step back from that ledge my friend
And I would understand
I would understand
I would understand

What do you think? Can you see the parallel? It always makes me cry with hope whenever I think about it that way. What's more, I can vent my frustrations to serve in God's plan. By that I mean, I can let the frustration that I relate to be the determination of my pleadge to do as God's will, not as my own for I am a sinner who put him there. As some of you know the origional song was meant for a suicidal 'jumper' rather then Jesus, but I would have the same care for a man in the origional setting. "Whatever you do unto the least of my people..." and all.

Good Charlotte is a band that I believe is making secular music to intentionally lead people to God. A few months back I got to sing "Wounded" for the college group at my church:

Lost and broken,
Hopeless and lonely.
Smiling on the outside,
and hurt beneath my skin.

My eyes are fading,
My soul is bleeding.
I'll try to make it seem okay,
But my faith is wearing thin.

So help me heal these wounds,
They've been open for way too long.
Help me fill this soul,
Even though this is not your fault,

That I'm open,
And I'm bleeding,
All over your brand new rug.
And I need someone to help me sew them up.

I only wanted a magazine,
I only wanted a movie screen,
I only wanted the life I'd read about and dreamed.
And now my mind is an open book,
And now my heart is an open wound,
And now my life is an open soul for all to see.

But help me heal these wounds,
They've been open for way too long.
Help me fill this soul,
Even though this is not your fault,

That I'm open and I'm bleeding,
All over your brand new rug.
And I need someone to help me,
So you come along,
I push you away,
Then kick and scream for you to stay.
Cuz I need someone to help me,
Oh I need someone to help me,
To help me heal these wounds,
They've been open for way too long.
Help me fill this soul,
Even though this is not your fault,

That I'm open,
And I'm bleeding,
All over your brand new rug.
And I need someone to help me sew them,
I need someone to help me fill them,
I need someone to help me close them up.

What do you think? Does anyone else have something to share?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 15 replies

trilogy

2005-05-19T19:26:00Z

I would like to know what peoples opinions are on this.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit - 3 separate entities or 1?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 14 replies

Kingdom of Heaven

2005-05-19T16:58:24Z

This was a good movie, it explained the difference between good and not so good Christians very well I think. Of course it helped that I love the romance of that time period - Has anyone else seen it? It was about One man comeing to terms with his "religeon" and some of the battles fought over Jerusalum in the 12th century, I didn't look into how many liberties hollywood took with tellling the story. :-)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

Futurama and God.

2005-05-19T14:00:03Z

I love Futurama. I love God. The following is a dialogue of a futurama episode where Bender, the trash talking, worship demanding, beer drinking, wallet stealing, suisidal, atheist robot, (apparently) meets God. Just before this you might want to know that as bender was hurdling through space he collided with a meteor whose inhabitants quickly recognised him as the "Metal Lord" and let him play God for a while. It's a great episode!

[Scene: Bender talks to God.]

Bender: So, do you know what I'm gonna do before I do it?

God: Yes.

Bender: What if I do something different?

God: Then I don't know that.

Bender: Cool cool! I bet a lot of people pray to you huh?

God: Yes, but there are so many asking so much. After a while you just sorta tune it out.

Bender: Y'know, I was God once.

God: Yes I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.

Bender: It was awful. I tried helping them. I tried not helping them but in the end I couldn't do them any good. Do you think what I did was wrong?

God: Right and wrong are just words. What matters is what you do.

Bender: Yeah I know, that's why I asked if what I did - forget it.

God: Bender, being God isn't easy, if you do too much, people get dependent. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.

Bender: Or a guy who burns down the bar for the insurance money.

God: Yes, if you make it look like an electrical thing. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Bender: Does that mean you wouldn't send me back to Earth even if I prayed to you?

God: Earth? Which way is that?

[Bender looks around.]

Bender: (sadly) I don't know.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

The Lords Prayer

2005-05-19T04:10:04Z

Subject: The Lord's Prayer; A Discussion. - Yes I just posted this on Christian talk Tribe but I think there are some different folk out there. This is amusing, but also gives one something to think about. (sometimes - I wish these 2 tribes would morph into one)

Subject: The Lord's Prayer; A Discussion

Our Father Who Art In Heaven.

YES.

Don't interrupt me. I'm praying.

BUT -- YOU CALLED ME!

Called you? No, I didn't call you. I'm praying. Our Father Who Art In Heaven.

THERE -- YOU DID IT AGAIN!

Did what?

CALLED ME. YOU SAID, "OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN" WELL HERE I AM. WHAT'S ON
YOUR MIND?

But I didn't mean anything by it. I was, you know, just saying my prayers for
the day. I always say the Lord's Prayer. It makes me feel good, kind of like
fulfilling a duty.

WELL, ALL RIGHT. GO ON.

Okay, Hallowed be Thy name...

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

By what?

BY "HALLOWED BE THY NAME?"

It means, it means, good grief, I don't know what it means. How in the world
should I know? It's just a part of the prayer. By the way, what does it mean?

IT MEANS HONORED, HOLY, WONDERFUL!

Hey, that makes sense. I never thought about what 'hallowed' meant before.
Thanks.

Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.

DO YOU REALLY MEAN THAT?

Sure, why not?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

Doing? Why, nothing, I guess. I just think it would be kind of neat if you got
control of everything down here like you have up there. We're kinda in a mess
down here you know.

YES, I KNOW; BUT, HAVE I GOT CONTROL OF YOU?

Well, I go to church.

THAT ISN'T WHAT I ASKED YOU. WHAT ABOUT YOUR BAD TEMPER? YOU'VE REALLY GOT A
PROBLEM THERE, YOU KNOW AND THEN THERE'S THE WAY YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY -- ALL ON
YOURSELF. AND WHAT ABOUT THE KIND OF BOOKS YOU READ?

Now hold on just a minute! Stop picking on me! I'm just as good as some of the
rest of those people at church!

EXCUSE ME. I THOUGHT YOU WERE PRAYING FOR MY WILL TO BE DONE. IF THAT IS TO
HAPPEN, IT WILL HAVE TO START WITH THE ONES WHO ARE PRAYING FOR IT. LIKE YOU --
FOR EXAMPLE.

Oh, all right. I guess I do have some hang-ups. Now that you mention it, I
could probably name some others.

SO COULD I...

I haven't thought about it very much until now but I really would like to cut
out some of those things. I would like to, you know, be really free.

GOOD. NOW WE'RE GETTING SOMEWHERE. WE'LL WORK TOGETHER - - YOU AND ME. I'M
PROUD OF YOU.

Look, Lord, if you don't mind, I need to finish up here. This is taking a lot
longer than it usually does.

Give us this day, our daily bread.

YOU NEED TO CUT OUT THE BREAD. YOU'RE OVERWEIGHT AS IT IS.

Hey, wait a minute! What is this? Here I was doing my religious duty, and all
of a sudden you break in and remind me of all my hang-ups.

PRAYING IS A DANGEROUS THING. YOU JUST MIGHT GET WHAT YOU ASK FOR. REMEMBER,
YOU CALLED ME -- AND HERE I AM. IT'S TOO LATE TO STOP NOW. KEEP PRAYING.

(Pause...)

WELL, GO ON.

I'm scared to.

SCARED? OF WHAT?

I know what you'll say.

TRY ME.

Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.

WHAT ABOUT CAROL?

See? I knew it! I knew you would bring her up. Why, Lord, she's told lies about
me, spread stories. She never paid back the money she owes me. I've sworn to
get even with her!

BUT -- YOUR PRAYER -- WHAT ABOUT YOUR PRAYER?

I didn't -- mean it.

WELL, AT LEAST YOU'RE HONEST. BUT, IT'S QUITE A LOAD CARRYING AROUND ALL THAT
BITTERNESS AND RESENTMENT, ISN'T IT?

Yes, but I'll feel better as soon as I get even with her. Boy, have I got some
plans for her. She'll wish she had never been born.

NO, YOU WON'T FEEL ANY BETTER. YOU'LL FEEL WORSE. REVENGE ISN'T SWEET. YOU KNOW
HOW UNHAPPY YOU ARE - - WELL, I CAN CHANGE THAT.

You can? How?

FORGIVE CAROL. THEN, I'LL FORGIVE YOU; AND THE HATE AND SIN WILL BE CAROL'S
PROBLEM -- NOT YOURS. YOU WILL HAVE SETTLED THE PROBLEM AS FAR AS YOU ARE
CONCERNED.

Oh, you know, you're right. You always are. And more than I want revenge, I
want to be right with You ... (sigh) All right ... all right ... I forgive her.

THERE NOW! WONDERFUL! HOW DO YOU FEEL?

Hmmmm. Well, not bad. Not bad at all! In fact, I feel pretty great! You know, I
don't think I'll go to bed uptight tonight. I haven't been getting much rest,
you know.

YEAH, I KNOW. BUT, YOU'RE NOT THROUGH WITH YOUR PRAYER ARE YOU? GO ON.

Oh, all right. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

GOOD! GOOD! I'LL DO THAT. JUST DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BE
TEMPTED.

What do you mean by that?

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

Yeah. I know.

OKAY. GO AHEAD. FINISH YOUR PRAYER.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever. Amen.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BRING ME GLORY - - WHAT WOULD REALLY MAKE ME HAPPY?

No, but I'd like to know. I want to please you now. I've really made a mess of
things. I want to truly follow you. I can see now how great that would be. So,
tell me how do I make you happy?

YOU JUST DID.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Sacred Heart

2005-05-18T14:47:57Z

Sacred Heart of Jesus

Most Merciful and Sacred Heart of Jesus, you are truly our shepherd.
You have promised to seek out the lost, bring back those who have strayed, bind up the injured and heal the sick.
Grant us your loving protection and to those I care for, especially when
the way seems most bleak and dangerous.
Let me feel your loving presence, guiding me along the path of your will.
In your name I pray.

Amen.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

God and Intellectuals

2005-05-17T00:49:35Z

Hi,

I am a Christian who God has gifted with a very high speed thinking brain. When I was young I felt very unfit for God because my christian teachers were not very good at, well teaching. They taught me all about the Big Bang theory and evolution and Descartes, "I think therefore I am" and then left me thinking with the only justification they gave being "all of that stuff is just stupid because they don't believe in God". Well I knew from the beginning that God or no God didn't stop those things from being at least partially true. So for a time i was an atheist because I needed to serve the purpose of my own genius for being. I had fights with God even during those times. A while down the road a mormon friend of mine pointed out that, for a man who does not believe in God, I sure do care a lot about him. That message hit hard and it was the only proof I needed to know that God exists.

Now, of rescently, I've been debating atheist online, using the fundamental proofs that I have which show that if God doesn't exist then humanity is basicly null and void in a few areas. Intelligence, ethics, math, reason, etc. You can ask me personally later if you need me to specify.

The problem now that I am writing abotu is that with all of this outreaching my head is beginning to turn to mush on a daily basis for the first time. I'm being drawn to my more innate desires as a result of this, wanting only love (a wife, friends, and family). It seems like while my relationship can be close with God in this intellectual way, my needs as a human being to be fulfilled with a sense of purpose are lacking in that fulfillment. I know it's very rare, but I'm wondering if anyone here relates to that. Is there a place for God's intellectuals to find peace. Perhaps even peace that doesn't need justification. Just peace, like deep deep sleep. The closest to this I have ever felt is when I'm with friends or talking to another intellectual about poetic things. I sense that it is my need for a wife growing ever more strongly, but at the same time, my personal pflight for one is leaving me by force. I'm too afraid of too many things to ask a girl out, and I've got too many things on my mind now to spare the energy for my relief. Is there anyone out there who relates to this?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 10 replies

Favorite Authors

2005-05-17T00:25:26Z

As with any writers, there are many Christian writers, but few who do it well. So often I feel that Christian authors write about the Christian experience, or insert Christian themes into their works in a way that makes it seem contrived or forced. The assumptions of Christianity are there, without an exploration of what those assumptions mean for us, and how they personally affect us.

Whom do you feel is good at writing from the Christian perspective without beating us over the head with the Christian stick?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

Does God want us all to be Rich and Happy?

2005-05-15T22:41:25Z

Prosperity Gospel or not?

What are your thoughts? Can you pray your way to wealth?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 8 replies

Spiritual Gifts...What is yours?

2005-05-12T19:25:48Z

Has anyone ever done the study to learn what your spiritual gift is and how best to utilize it for the Kingdom?

I am going to look up the passage now that refers to these gifts. Guess I should have been more prepared before I posted, huh?

BRB

posted in Christians for the Lord - 14 replies

Tired of "christianity"

2005-05-12T18:37:09Z

you know, I am so tired of modern day christianity. I love Christ. I love what He did for us and who He is, but I can't hang with those who call themselves christians anymore. I have a lot of issues with a lot of things, and I guess I wanted to gripe. I don't go to church, because the concept of "church" is mainstream and a part of white culture. The last time I went to church was last month, and I thought, "okay, I'm going to try this and try to be a part of this "body" ", but I felt so suffocated. And I go to a pretty progressive church. But I can't stand being boxed in with four walls and a roof. My ancestors, the first peoples of this great continent, worshipped the Great Spirit in all things. Yeah, they hads sweat lodges, but for the most part, they honored God in all they saw. There is a different beat that drums through my blood and I must follow that, while still loving and following Christ. Does any of this make sense? Or do I just sound like a bitter Christian?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 28 replies

Speaking in Tongues...?

2005-05-12T18:32:41Z

With the coming of Pentacost on the 15th, I was wondering how everyone viewed this.

Have you ever experienced someone doing this?

Do you see speaking in tongues as a spiritual gift?

Do you view this as some sort of "hocus-pocus"?

Are you uncomfortable with the topic?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

Get Thee Behind Me

2005-05-12T05:22:27Z

Why do Christians (with obvious exceptions) seem to be so afraid of the internet? Why is our presence so lacking?

The *vocal* majority on the Tribes I frequent is, at the very least, derisive toward Christianity and can be downright hostile. Of course, I hang out in the Atheist and Crossroads of Religion Tribes. ;)

But a review of the 'most popular' and 'newest' Tribes would seem to lend some credence to my observation. The Burning Man Tribes alone could quite easily be a Web site unto themselves. By contrast, most of the Christian Tribes to which I belong are dead or dying.

I worked on a Website for our former church's junior high youth group, and you should've seen the eyebrows raised when I suggested that we include a chatroom.

Several of my former students weren't allowed to use the internet, or to do so only to check e-mail or while at school.

What are we afraid of? Apart from the valid concerns of inappropriate content, safety, and 'get out and play!', I think Christians are neglecting one of the most powerful tools God has yet given us to spread His message. The internet gives us the opportunity to quickly, easily, and personally demonstrate a life dedicated to Christ, to millions of people.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

Hooray! New Moderator

2005-05-12T02:14:33Z

OK, folks, we now have a new moderator. I am just now leaving work and will post later tonight and try to "clean-up" this tribe. Ideas, comments, suggestions, concerns...this is the place to let me know.

In Christ,
Suzanne

posted in Christians for the Lord - 7 replies

Slain the spirit

2005-05-09T17:48:38Z

along the lines of speaking in tounges but different. I witnessed this last night for the first time. It was very emotional, and I could just feel God in the room.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 11 replies

Prayer for Chopper 22

2005-05-07T21:38:33Z

Dear Heavenly Father,

We lift up Chopper to You. Send Your Holy Spirit to work in his heart. Only You know what lies hidden there. Remove the scales from his eyes.

We ask this in Jesus' name,
Amen

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

Favorite Christian Music?

2005-05-06T17:55:16Z

Anyone wanna list a favorite Christian track they really dig?

I'll start:

He's Alive - Dolly Parton (if you haven't heard this you should)
Testify - Jay Williams (house - probably all time favorite club track - I can't tell you how many times I've spun this at clubs - people always dig it - very dubby but it's very cool)
Make It Happen - Mariah Carey
Let Love In - Crystal Lewis
You'll Be Back For Me - Crystal Lewis
My Redeemer Lives - Crystal Lewis
Come Just As You Are - Crystal Lewis
Freedom - Nicole C. Mullens (almost house)

Hmmm...I know I listed Jay Williams/Testify up there, and really, now that I'm kinda tryin' to think about it, I think I wanna include more house/dance oriented trax. So I'll leave my list as it is, but in the words of our new governator, Eye-ll be baack! (;

posted in Christians for the Lord - 21 replies

Bible Study

2005-05-05T13:55:54Z

Wyld S has felt that there is a need for a Bible Study group.
Should we do this here or should she start a new tribe?
What do you all think?
C

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Praise thread!

2005-05-04T14:07:01Z

It's entirely too quiet in here, especially for a tribe you'd figure would be rejoicing this time of year. Lets start a thread devoted to things we're greatful for :) Could be the healing of a sick family member, or just something small.

I thank God for speaking to me through the smallest voices, and for the wisdom he shares with people. Recently my life has been touched by a new friend - wise well beyond her years. He speaks, and for that I'm trully greatful.

I'd also like to give a quick thanks for the patience I received yesterday trying to work my way though a huge crowd of last minute shoppers ;)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 8 replies

Been Gone Awhile? Welcome Back!

2005-05-04T02:57:25Z

I want to personally welcome back any members who have not visited this tribe in a while. Please stay and share your thoughts and prayers with us.

Check in here and let me know who you are.

Blessed Be,
Suzanne

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Love of the Father

2005-05-02T18:58:34Z

http://www.fathersloveletter.com/fllpreviewlarge.html

Have any of you seen this? It's pretty cool.

Smiles
Wyld

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Nominations for a new Moderator

2005-05-01T09:51:52Z

Hello, everyone! The powers that be at tribe have advised that we take nominations for a new moderator and then vote. So, taking nominations now.

Give the person's tribe name and why you feel they would be a good moderator for this tribe.

Then we can vote. Then I have to notify PTB of the results and they will allow us to make the change.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 15 replies

vote

2005-04-30T06:22:51Z

for Jesus.

He da man!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Spring

2005-04-30T03:55:29Z

Nothing is so beautiful as Spring--
When weeds, in wheels, shoot long and lovely and
lush;
Thrush's eggs look like low heavens, and thrush
Through the echoing timber does so rinse and wring
The ear, it strikes like lightnings to hear him sing;
The glassy peartree leaves and blooms, they brush
The descending blue; that blue is all in a rush
With richness; the racing lambs too have fair their
fling.

What is all this juice and all this joy?
A strain of the earth's sweet being in the beginning
In Eden garden. --Have, get, before it cloy,
Before it cloud, Christ, lord, and sour with sinning,
Innocent mind and Mayday in girl and boy,
Most, O maid's child, thy choice and worthy the
winning.

-- Gerard Manly Hopkins

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

How Big is Jesus?

2005-04-29T21:07:05Z

http://www.livejournal.com/users/jwz/473946.html

'If you conservatively assume that these are the End Times and that Jesus will soon be completely consumed (a detail that I do not believe is a part of mainstream Christian dogma), then he weighs twenty million times more than you, and contains ninety-two billion times as much blood. (20,282,528× and 92,000,000,000×).'

posted in Christians for the Lord - 6 replies

Dante's Inferno

2005-04-23T19:02:04Z

An abbreviated walkthrough --
http://bytebrite.com/art/inferno/

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

God's Presence...Have you experienced it?

2005-04-22T04:34:48Z

Has anyone ever physically experienced God's presence in your life? If so, please share with us.

I was a smoker for many, many years. (30+) I had tried to quit on numerous occasions. My friends all said the only thing I quit was buying `coz I just bummed off them. I had even made bargains with God. You know the kind. "If You will keep me from smoking, I will go to church, be nicer, give more money, etc..." In August of 2003, I cam down with bronchitis or something equally nasty. Because of the smoking, I thought I was going to die. I couldn't get up off the bed without gasping for breath. The day after my 25th wedding anniversary, I knew I had to quit or I was going to die before I turned 50. This time, I made no bargains with God. I just fell to my knees and begged Him to take away my desire to smoke. I knew I could not do it by myself. Only with His help, could I quit.

My husband and my older son both smoke in the house.
By the fourth day, I was feeling better and was craving a cigarette. I walked into our office where my husband had just lit one. It smelled so good. (Only a smoker can understand that statement.) I asked God to keep me strong and I physically was pushed back out the door away from the cigarettes and smoke. I know it was God pushing me out that door. I could not have walked away on my own.

I have not had a cigarette since August of 2003, nor have I gotten sanctimonious and asked my family to not smoke in the house. I knew I would never touch another cigarette.

Thanks be to God!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

WWJB.tribe.net

2005-04-19T21:31:00Z

www.WWJB.tribe.net

Join the Who Would Jesus B??? ?

Join to find out what choice our lord is making.

It's fun, real, and we can celebrate Jesus and Peace on Earth!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Moderator???

2005-04-17T22:58:30Z

Do we have one?

Barbara, are you there? Do you still want to moderate this tribe?

Hello?

Anyone know Barbara?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

research

2005-04-12T15:01:18Z

I'm sorry, I'm going to be a teacher in about a year. Chopper is really scaring me because he is the kind of student I don't want to have in class. The kind that think every Internet resource is credible.

The only websites that I would allow in research (or any of my professors have allowed) are .edu and .gov (for certain types of research. I don't see either of those in his supposed research.

Anyway I will stop now because I am only making myself feel bad about putting him down. But really, I'm worried about how kids think they can do research after this guy....

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

5loaves.net - online Christian social network that integrates blogging, chat, and file-sharing

2005-04-09T15:31:17Z

Just wanted to invite you to 5loaves.net, an online Christian social network that connects the Body of Christ by linking friends, churches, and organizations. We are less than a month old and would love some feedback on the site. If you get a chance, then please check it out and let me know what you think. You can find my personal page at: 5loaves.dayak.com/glen. Thanks.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Terri Schiavo

2005-04-06T23:04:17Z

In 1990, Terri Schiavo collapsed in her home and suffered extensive brain damage due to an alleged heart attack. She has since been kept alive via a feeding tube, though she needs no other form of life support. She - and her life - is currently in the middle of a very ugly legal dispute between her parents and siblings, and her husband.

Her husband and guardian contends that Terri is in a Persistent Vegetative State, and that she would not want to live in such a manner, though she left no Living Will to this effect; he has been fighting her family and the Florida legal system to remove her feeding tube, and starve her to death. His request has been granted and overthrown, and was reinstated last May; a stay on the removal has been in place since then, pending further legal arguments and an appeal to the US Supreme Court, which refused to hear the case last month. This stay was to have expired last night, but the judge has extended that stay until 5pm tomorrow (Friday, 2/25).

The background information on this situation is extensive (and increasingly sordid), but Terri's condition has improved during the 15 years since her collapse, and her family insists that she 'smiles, laughs, cries, moves, and makes child-like attempts at speech. Sometimes she has been reported to say "Mom" or "Dad" or "yeah" when her parents ask her a question. When they kiss her, she looks at them and "puckers up" her lips.'

So that you're fully aware of the background surrounding Terri's case, I strongly recommend that you read the following brief synopsis of her story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo

In the remaining hours of Terri's stay, and possibly her life, all we can do is pray: for Terri, for strength and courage for her family, for the wisdom of her lawyers and judges, and for mercy from her husband. Please take a few moments to pray for Terri as the next day unfolds, and pray that, whatever happens, she be comforted by the grace and love of God.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Hell

2005-04-06T21:05:18Z

I wanted to share with you the best description of hell that I have found. It is from The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel. It says that hell is not necessarily a place of eternal fire and physical torture.

"God is the most generous, loving, wonderful, attractive being in the cosmos. He has made us with free will and he has made us for a purpose: to relate lovingly to him and to others. We are not accidents, we're not modified monkeys, we're not random mistakes. And if we fail over and over again to live for the purpose for which we were made -- a purpose, by the way, which would allow us to flourish more than living any other way-- then God will have absolutely no choice but to give us what we've asked for all along in our lives, which is separation from him.

Christianity says people are the most valuable things in the entire creation. If people matter, then personal relationships matter, and hell is largely relational. In the Bible, hell is separation or banishment from the most beautiful thing in the world-- God himself. It is exclusing from anything that matters, from all value, not only from God but also from those who have come to know and love him.

Make no mistake: hell IS a punishment-- but it's not a punishING. It's not torture. The punishment of hell is separation from God, bringing shame, anguish, and regret. And because we will have both body and soul in the resurrected state, the misery experienced can be both mental and physical. But the pain that's suffered will be due to the sorrow from the final, ultimate, unending banishment from God, his kingdom, and the good life for which we were created in the first place. People in hell will deeply grieve all they've lost."

I know that hell is something myself and many others struggle to understand. This explanation makes so much sense to me. While physical pain in eternal fire is SCARY, the mental pain of being banished from God's kingdom seems almost worse. I think most of know what it is like when we torture ourselves about something like "Did I leave the iron on when I left the house?" or "Why did I say that to that person? I wish I could take it back." Only the mental punishment of hell will be infinitely worse than worrying about those things, just like the joyful love and reward of being in heaven will be infinitely more amazing than the small glimpses of that love we experience during worship and at other times.

I highly recommend reading The Case for Faith if you haven't already. It served to strengthen my faith in so many ways, not excluding the challenging of my beliefs. The book will challenge you to think and question yourself, but will ultimately bring you back to a point where you still believe, yet have more information to back up your beliefs.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 2 replies

Masturbation

2005-04-04T05:24:00Z

Just out of curiosity, what is the current christian stance on masturbation.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 73 replies

The Divine Mercy Devotion

2005-04-03T15:14:36Z

I felt it was appropriate to share this as a remembrance of the work Pope John Paul II carried out --

During the course of Jesus' revelations to Saint Faustina on the Divine Mercy He asked on numerous occasions that a feast day be dedicated to the Divine Mercy and that this feast be celebrated on the Sunday after Easter. The liturgical texts of that day, the 2nd Sunday of Easter, concern the institution of the Sacrament of Penance, the Tribunal of the Divine Mercy, and are thus already suited to the request of Our Lord. This Feast, which had already been granted to the nation of Poland and been celebrated within Vatican City, was granted to the Universal Church by Pope John Paul II on the occasion of the canonization of St. Faustina on 30 April 2000. In a decree dated 23 May 2000, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments stated that "throughout the world the Second Sunday of Easter will receive the name Divine Mercy Sunday, a perennial invitation to the Christian world to face, with confidence in divine benevolence, the difficulties and trials that mankind will experience in the years to come." These papal acts represent the highest endorsement that the Church can give to a private revelation, an act of papal infallibility proclaiming the certain sanctity of the mystic, and the granting of a universal feast, as requested by Our Lord to St. Faustina.

(from: http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/)

In 1933, God gave Sister Faustina a striking vision of His Mercy,
Sister tells us:

"I saw a great light, with God the Father in the midst of it.
Between this light and the earth I saw Jesus nailed to the Cross
and in such a way that God, wanting to look upon the earth, had to
look through Our Lord's wounds and I understood that God blessed
the earth for the sake of Jesus."

Of another vision on Sept. 13, 1935, she writes:

"I saw an Angel, the executor of God's wrath... about to strike
the earth...I began to beg God earnestly for the world with words
which I heard interiorly. As I prayed in this way, I saw the
Angel's helplessness, and he could not carry out the just
punishment...."

The following day an inner voice taught her to say this prayer on
ordinary rosary beads:

"First say one 'Our Father', 'Hail Mary', and 'I believe'. Then on
the large beads say the following words:

'Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity
of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement
for our sins and those of the whole world.'

On the smaller beads you are to say the following words:

'For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the
whole world.'

In conclusion you are to say these words three times:

'Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us
and on the whole world'.

Jesus said later to Sister Faustina:

"Say unceasingly this chaplet that I have taught you. Anyone who
says it will receive great Mercy at the hour of death. Priests
will recommend it to sinners as the last hope. Even the most
hardened sinner, if he recites this Chaplet even once, will
receive grace from My Infinite Mercy. I want the whole world to
know My Infinite Mercy. I want to give unimaginable graces to
those who trust in My Mercy...."

"....When they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I
will stand between My Father and the dying person not as the just
judge but as the Merciful Savior."

It seems that today would be an especially good day to pray for Divine Mercy.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Church Planting Question

2005-03-22T21:41:22Z

Hey all,
I haven't had much time to get that familiar with this tribe but from what I've read it sounds really neat. I guess this is as good a place to ask this question so here goes. I was having dinner with a buddy of mine last night, he's an accountability partner of mine, and during the course of the conversation he popped the question of what was I doing to take an active role in the Church and to grow in Christ. Well, I just popped off that I wasn't doing anything at the moment but I'd really been trying to find a way to use the skills I've developed at work to help the Church. Anyways, that wasn't true cause I hadn't been looking to find a way to use my talents but I thought it over last night and I think I should get on it.

Okay, here's what I"m thinking. I work in local government, in one of the edge cities out here on the southwest side of Houston as an urban planner. For those of you who aren't familiar with that, I basically shepherd businesses through the development processes that the city has in place, e.g. zoning, platting, etc. As I got to thinking I sorta realized that that has to be something that new churches have difficulty with when they decide that they've reached a point where its time to build a church. What I'd like is information on people, businesses, etc., who work with churches and offer to volunteer my services. If you'd like to talk or share info on this please contact me!!!

Tyler

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Oor Es Mayr Eem

2005-03-17T15:45:24Z

In this hymn, Christ cries out from upon the cross, "Mother, where are you?"

From http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~chatzis/LFTC.htm --

In the Armenian Church, the night from Maundy Thursday to Good Friday is kept as a vigil and devotional meditation. This is the night of Tenebrae. Sin, evil and death come into culmination. The world, which prefers darkness over light, evil over good, death over life, has its way. Desiring to remain in the darkness, men chose to kill the Light. At midnight, as the lights of the church are gradually extinguished, the real "mood" of the ceremony, which is one of sorrow and destitution, is expressed by the singing of this melody, which symbolizes the final contemplations of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.

Translation --

Where are you my most sweet mother?

Your motherly love do I seek fervently.

My eyes are full of bitter tears, I have nobody to wipe them off.

They spat on me, beat me, slapped my face, and crowned me with a crown of thorns.

I asked for a drink of water, but the wicked gave me vinegar instead.

Inform my mother, which I love with all my heart.

Where are you, my beloved mother?

Please come and quench my thirst.

Listen to a version of this hymn here --

http://bytebrite.com/share/music/22%20-%20...20Mayr%20Im.mp3

posted in Christians for the Lord - 3 replies

The Chain of the Immortals

2005-03-16T21:28:30Z

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~essence/The_Chain_of_the_Immortals.pdf

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Hey, Santa Claus!

2005-03-08T18:07:12Z

I grew up in a Methodist home (technically) and was raised with the notion of Santa Claus planted firmly in my brain. We always left cookies for Santa, and would receive one gift from him on Christmas morning - unwrapped, in front of the tree, and usually the one thing we'd really wanted for Christmas.

I assumed I would do the same for my son. I have a collection of the letters J.R.R. Tolkien wrote his children (from Santa) each Christmas, and I'd been excited to share the same experiences I had as a child with my son.

Then my wife and I talked. She and her family weren't against Santa Claus, per se, but she doesn't want to tell our son that Santa Claus really exists. After her arguments, and after our pastor's sermon this past Sunday, I find myself surprised to agree:

1. Why lie to kids?

2. She wants to teach him about the real St. Nicholas, and participate in the Dutch holiday on Dec. 6.

3. For Christmas, she'd rather tell our son that everyone *pretends* that Santa Claus exists - which is true. It's a small, but I feel important, distinction. We won't leave Santa out of Christmas, but we make clear that he doesn't truthfully exist. Because...

4. How can I expect my son to believe in God when he finds out that Santa doesn't exist? "You said Santa Claus existed, but he doesn't. What about God?" Santa Claus is pretend, God is not. The same goes for the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, etc.

And the most important argument:

5. The focus of Christmas is Christ. Ironically, it's during the season when we should be thinking of Christ when we create the most distractions from the true meaning of Christmas. Why encourage that?

Spiritually, morally, and educationally it just makes sense for me to have a fun pretend game with my son about Santa Clause, rather than trying to convince him that he really exists.

Thoughts?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 8 replies

'Hyperion' by Dan Simmons

2005-02-02T14:34:27Z

Have any fellow Christians read this sci-fi series? Apart from Simmons's fantastic writing and imagination, I'm finding these books fascinating to read from a Christian perspective.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Perspectives on Salvation

2005-01-26T17:40:05Z

Because of the religion's alleged influence in the '04 presidential election, this week NPR is featuring stories about 'Evangelical Christianity' (...whatever that term has come to mean within the past year...).

The story broadcast on 1/17/2005 was about Colorado Springs and the rise of Evangelical Christianity in that city. NPR, predictably, interviewed the most polorized citizens they could find about the subject. A man who sells Darwin-fish and buttons along the lines of 'I don't have a problem with god, just his fan club' said (I'm paraphrasing), 'He [a pastor] and I both make money from peoples' beliefs, I'm just honest about it. And whereas his followers don't get a payoff until they die, my customers get their merchandise within 48 hours, usually.'

Quite often, I hear similar comments from antagonists of Christianity. Their view is that the Christian faith is a way of avoiding eternal damnation, lakes of fire, and long, pointy objects being thrust in our direction. They say that ours is a faith based upon fear, and that our only concern is what happens when we die.

I suppose I can't really blame them. It seems the only Christians which really grab the media's attention are those who cry, 'Repent, or burn in hell'.

But is freedom from fire really our motive? Does our faith in Christ rest merely upon his promise to save us from eternal damnation?

I'm not discounting the gift of salvation, nor the fear of hell (a loaded term, which holds different meaning for everyone). But it seems to me that my faith has more to do with the joy and blessings I find in living with Christ and the promise of one day living in his presence than any sort of Pavlovian negative reinforcement. I live my life in Christ, not to avoid punishment, but because I have found love and acceptance.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 3 replies

"He who is pleaseing to God eludes her, but the sinner is her captive."

2005-01-10T23:56:09Z

For the Devoted,

From the Song of Songs:

"Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth.
For thy love is better than wine."

Interesting that the Songs
follow
Ecclesiastes which say:

"Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth, and let
thy
heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and
walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the
sight of thine eyes; but know though, that for
all these things God will bring thee into
judgment."

It's reminiscent of Alexander Pope's poem about Eloisa and Abelard and Eloisa's words :

"Yet then, to those dread altars as I drew,
Not on the cross my eyes were fixed, but you:
Not grace, or zeal, love only was my call,
And if I lose your love, I lose my all."

Tristan Isolt

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Chapter and verse

2005-01-06T14:21:20Z

I think after reading all of these post here that it would be for the good of all, if we used chapters and verses to back up anything that we say.

How else to know if what is being said is the truth or someone's opinion. Does anyone agree? Because I don't want to be a part of a study group that can't back what they say with references from the Bible.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

when Christians intentionally sin

2005-01-06T14:02:54Z

How are we to view blatant sin, I know it draws us further away in fellowship with God, but when our sin leads us to do something that seems unforgiveable, and yet at the same time draws us to the seat of his mercy, how are we to view something like that? I'm sorry I am being so vague

posted in Christians for the Lord - 7 replies

The Holy Mother

2004-11-15T23:28:12Z

A friend in the Gnostic Way tribe posted this bit of St. Julian's writing. More can be found here: http://www.umilta.net/westmins.html

Peace,
Denny

Also, as truly as God is our Father, so as truly God is our Mother. And that he shows in all and namely in these sweet words, where he says,'I it am'. That is to say,'I it am, the might and goodness of Fatherhead; I it am, the wisdom and the kindness of Motherhood; I it am, the light and the grace, that is all blessed love; I it am, the Trinity; I it am, the Unity; I it am, the high sovereign goodness of all manner of things; I it am, that makes you to love; I it am, that makes you to long, the endless fullness of all true desires'.
···
I understand three manners of beholding of Motherhead in God. The first is ground of our natural making. The second is taking of our nature, and there begins the Motherhead of grace. The third is Motherhead of working and therein is a spreading forth by the same grace of length and of breadth, of height and of deepness without end. And all is one love.
···
The mother's service is nearest, readiest and surest. It is nearest, for it is natural, readiest, for it is most of love, and surest for it is of truth. This office might nor could anyone ever do to the full, but Christ Jesus, God and Man alone. We know well that all our mothers bear us with pain and for dying. But our true Mother Jesus, he alone bears us to joy and to bliss, and endless living, blessed must he be.

Thus he sustains us within him in love. And travailed into the full time that he would suffer the sharpest throes and the most grievous pains that ever were or ever shall be, and died at the last and when he had done and so borne us to bliss, yet might not all this be enough to his marvellous love. And that showed he in these high overpassing words of love, 'If I might suffer more I would suffer more' .

He might no more die, but he would not cease working. Therefore then he needs must feed us, for the dear worthy love of Motherhead has made him debtor to us. The mother may give her child to suck her milk, but our precious Mother Jesus, he may feed us with himself, and does full courteously and full tenderly with the blessed sacrament of his body and blood that is precious food of very life. And with all the sweet sacraments he sustains us well mercifully and graciously.
. ···
The sweet gracious hands of our Mother are ready and diligent about us. For he in all this working uses the true office of a kind nurse, that has nothing else to do, but to attend about the salvation of her child. It is the office of our lord Jesus Christ to save us. It is his worship to do it, and it is his will, we know it. For he wills that we love him sweetly and trust in him meekly and strongly. And this he showed in these gracious words, I keep you most surely'. Furthermore a natural child despairs not of the mother's love, and naturally the child presumes not of itself, naturally the child loves the mother, each of them loves the other.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

Ecclesiastes

2004-11-15T09:59:29Z

I am posting this on a few tribes that dialogue about religion or the bible.

---

What is your general take on Ecclesiastes? If you have never really reat it, it is a short read (about 1/2 an hour) with 12 chapters (short ones).

How might the perspective of Ecclesiastes respond to a gospel of prosperity (I am listening to a sermon on prosperity right now as I type) - meaning, a gospel that says, in basic form, that if our relationship with God and his Son are in order, than we will not have to worry about failed relationships, financial problems, our helath, etc...because God will be able to remedy any and all problems in our lives.

Peace.
MC

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

the case for Christ

2004-10-05T02:33:25Z

i've recently started reading 'the case for Christ' by lee strobel. i'm enjoying it, but occasionally i think strobel's focusing too much on evidence and not enough on faith. atill, i've picked up a lot of good information.

has anyone else read it? what were your opinions?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 11 replies

Fighting the battle against temptation

2004-09-27T18:09:33Z

Guys I really need your prayers. This is a battle I've fought my entire life, but now more than ever I have to win. You see my job lets me access the web after hours as long as I want. After I'm done with work, I usually surf. But alot of times I wind up in places I shouldn't be. I know that all my boss has to do is look up some tracking files and I'd be screwed, but alot of times I don't even care.

I've tried to break this, but it always rears it's ugly head, and I fall. I know you're supposed to flee from sin, but sometimes the temptation gets the better of me. Please pray for me guys, it will take more strength than what I have right now to end this. My job is on the line so I have to do it.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

Knowing God is really there.

2004-09-22T23:35:32Z

I've been a Christian all my life, always believing in God. I met some non-Christians and I tried to explain things to them. Well needless to say I don't think I'll get a job as an evangelist any time soon. But it does make me wonder. We can't see, hear, feel or touch God, and do we really only know he exists because we were taught that? I debated whether or not I should post this, but lately I've been chasing after the answer to "How do we know God is really there?", so that I can preserve my faith and make it stronger. I used to be so sure about this, but now I'm not. Whatdya you guys think?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 9 replies

I have created a new art site

2004-09-13T08:35:47Z

Hello...

I have created a website that exhbitis digital art I have created to illuminate verses of lament. It was part of my invidualized coursework for my last Old Testament class in seminary which focused on the Writings (wisdom books of the Old Testament like Job, Psalms, Prov, Ecc,etc..).

During the course of my study in this class, I really resonated with the act of lament that was such a big part of the way in which ancient Israel related to God. I feel we have unfortunately lost a true sense of what it means to lament as a community and want to reclaim it.

You can find out more about my thoughts in the "about" links and by reading "more" from the main page (after the initial link in).

Please feel free to respond to the site. I will not be offended in anyway by any type of response.

http://www.art-of-lament.info

Peace.
MC

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

please explain

2004-08-16T09:26:24Z

hi, i'm jewish.
i'm curious to hear how you define/conceptualize god. I'm not here to challenge your beliefs, or otherwise show disrespect. I'm curious to learn about your faith. Though I typify myself as Jewish, I consider my faith to be transcendent. I'm curious to learn how right I am in that assertion.
If you don't mind taking the time, I would love to hear about how each other you define and conceptualize God. Does God have a gender, and other human characteristics? Are God's presence and creation seperate? Please share your thoughts on God. I am 'all ears'.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

the truth

2004-08-12T17:10:16Z

the truth is in the human gen structure the proof of god exist and darwin was a fool

posted in Christians for the Lord - 11 replies

Ted Turner

2004-07-05T21:47:07Z

Back slidden Christian?
http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher021103.asp

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

A debated topic

2004-05-11T21:59:55Z

I don't know...this has probably been discussed here before but, what is your stance on evolution?

I believe that species do evolve in a "survival of the fittest" type of framework.
But I believe that they did not evolve into the current species. God created all the animals and if any of them have evolved to their betterment so much that it created a new species, well then it was in God's plan.
But I think that most creatures only experience small evolutionary changes, like Darwin's bird beaks.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

Mother's Day

2004-05-07T13:32:43Z

Jesus remembered his mother while dying on the Cross (John 19:25-27) How should we respond to his example?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

yay

2004-04-28T15:33:00Z

going to church today.
yay!
do any of you have denominations?
i'm lutheran
but i go to a nondenominational organization while i'm at school

posted in Christians for the Lord - 20 replies

Witchcraft

2004-04-27T14:27:51Z

A few weeks ago, my pastor mentioned a passage from 'The Chronicles of Narnia'. I hadn't read the series since fourth grade, so I decided to revisit.

From 'The Silver Chair':

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Eustace and Jill are discussing how they might return to Narnia.]

"...And I can't help wondering, can we--could we?--"

"Do you mean, do something to make it happen?"

Eustace nodded.

"You mean we might draw a circle on the ground--and write things in queer letters in it--and stand inside it--and recite charms and spells?"

"Well...I don't think he'd [Aslan] like them. It would look as if we thought we could make him do things. But really, we can only ask him."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I've never thought about witchcraft like this before! I've always understood the danger, but not the arrogance of witchcraft. To think that anyone can force God to do anything, let alone honoring any force that would allow itself (or pretends to allow itself) to be told what to do...

Frightening!

I'm also reminded, yet again, how brilliant C.S. Lewis is at explaining the intricacies of Christianity in such simple terms. I highly recommend his 'Cosmic Trilogy'! (I believe it's published in the US at the 'Space Trilogy'.)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

scans the room

2004-04-21T21:46:04Z

very quiet in here lately - too quiet in fact. what are you folks up to these days? anyone been blessed lately, or need prayer?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

New to Tribal Waters....

2004-04-20T20:19:20Z

Hey, My names Justin and Im new to this tribe thing. I joined for the fact that I wanted to find other Christians around the globe in ministry to bounce resources off of. Im the drama director for our youth ministry in Carson City, Nv. Its an Assemblies of God church with a full swing of the Pentacostal movement. Im looking for others that may have background in Drama or even just youth ministry, we can share ideas and together reach the unreached for Jesus Christ.
Thanks and God Bless!
Justin

posted in Christians for the Lord - 3 replies

Youth Ministry

2004-04-19T20:58:55Z

Anyone involved in youth ministry? What is role and how long have you been involved? Share some experiences, please.

I am drama director for our youth ministry, its a volunteer position( for now, hopefully it will turn into full time), and I love it.

The future starts with todays youth.

Impacting a Generation- Justin

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

New kid

2004-04-02T01:46:56Z

Hey there everyone,

I am new to Tribe, and new to this group. Hello. I am a Christian. I and G_d have a recovering relationship currently. I spent a few years living without relying on him, but I am learning to trust and give to him. It's really interesting because I feel like he is testing my mettle this time around. :-)

It's kind of like the old joke that if you ask G_d for patience, he teaches it to you! I am asking G_d to help me learn to trust him more, and he's giving me stresses in my life to give me a reason to trust him... hehehe... But it's okay, because it'll all work out.

Anyways, just wanted to say "Hi!" I am an ex-baptist non-denominational Christian who has a tendency to challenge what people think, and has a decent background in theology. .

Chat with you soon, ;-)
Andrea

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

Why are you going to The Passion?

2004-03-11T02:50:28Z

1. My sister invited me to an exclusive showing
2. My son and daughter I know are suppose to go with me
3. Jesus loves me
4. I read the interview with the actor that played Jesus in Newsweek and he said he loves Jesus so much as a result of this movie
5. I am not looking forward to it because I know it will make me cry

posted in Christians for the Lord - 21 replies

chatting by IM

2004-03-09T16:37:08Z

There are a lot of you here I'd like to meet and chat with. If anyone is interrested, feel free to IM me anytime :) If I'm around, I'll respond, and we can chat for a bit. Some of you I've already chatted with for some time, and it's been nothing but a blessing :) Maybe if enough of us are on at once, we can start a mini-chatroom.

AIM: schmerto
yahoo: schmerto
ICQ: 70860654

posted in Christians for the Lord - 10 replies

Bible Reading?

2004-03-09T07:46:35Z

I was just wondering who has been reading which sections of the Bible lately--if you've been reading something specific that has blessed you or that you've learned from, would you please share? I think it would be very encouraging. :-)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

NEW HXC KID

2004-03-07T19:01:06Z

HEY PEOPLE IM NEW HERE .. I NEED FRIENDS! :(
SOMEONE PUT ME IN THIER CIRCLE :( HAHA

posted in Christians for the Lord - 4 replies

HI!!

2004-03-02T04:14:06Z

Hi all! I am really excited to be here! in this nice little place of posts! :) I have enjoyed getting to know some of you already! simply fromreading some of the posts here. As some of you may know i am new to this place so feel free to message me! Look forward to getting to know someof you more!
Yours in Christ
Danny

posted in Christians for the Lord - 5 replies

Hi! I'm new

2004-02-20T20:22:41Z

Hi, I am new and wanted to say hi. I have been reading some of the posts and they are very interesting.

I came to the Lord at various times in various ways over my life, or so I thought! I truly came to Him in 2000 and was baptized by water in a lovely Baptist church in Waterford, CT I am still learning the way of the bible being so knew at it. I love anything biblical or biblical history-the ancient history of the bible. There is so much there.

I look forward to meeting you all and sharing.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 9 replies

fellowship

2004-02-12T20:21:38Z

Don't let the enemy isolate you! Your brothers and sisters in the Lord are weak, like you, and they may offend or disappoint but it is the work of the enemy to take you out of fellowship. Seek believers and be built up! Worship congregationally and experience the presence of God in a unique way. (He always speaks to me in worship.) Forgive others and realize your need for the fellowship of the saints continues whether you like it or not!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 1 reply

New Christian tribe!

2004-02-12T18:51:57Z

Christian Anarchists- anarchrist.tribe.net
Looking for new intelligent members.

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

Debating Christianity and Religion

2004-02-11T16:00:59Z

I have created a debate forum for Debating Christianity and Religion for people of all persuasions.

Here's the link:
http://forum.otweb.com

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

mission statement

2004-02-04T08:25:28Z

have you written a mission statement? does it help you, do you refer to it? how has it affected your life?

posted in Christians for the Lord - 0 replies

How old were you when you met Jesus?

2004-02-03T06:33:40Z

I was 18. My husband's mother (we weren't married yet) gave me a book called "Dealing with the Devil", that book along with "The Screwtape Letters" by CS Lewis showed me how the devil was calling all the shots in my life. I started making changes in my life but bargained with God about really giving everything to him. I told Him, give me a job (I'd been looking for a month) and I'll give you my life (such a deal) Well, He gave me a job. It's amazing to me that He wanted me but at least I was as good as my promise and I committed my life to Him. It took awhile to really understand what I had done and to understand How much HE had done!! God takes us where we are, foolish or wise!

posted in Christians for the Lord - 12 replies

I love Nicole

2004-01-28T22:36:18Z

I knew that would get everyones attention.
Anyway I want to let everyone know that Nicole is my buddy and I love her. I believe that every thing that she posts is out of love,and have not taken anything that she has posted towards me as judgemental

posted in Christians for the Lord - 7 replies

Austin

2004-01-28T16:51:34Z

Thanks so much to everyone for their concern and prayers.Austin is now improving a little more everyday.Most of those tubes and wires and cables have been removed and he is breathing on his own .I have pics of him early on in my profile and will be adding more soon.Again thanks.
Big D. :)

posted in Christians for the Lord - 3 replies